Thank you Andrew T
Good informations.
nice.
Carlos
...................................................
But even we had informations Steve, go ahead as the question was sent to your thougths about.
We want to listen your opinion, or at least i would be happy to listen you about this subject.
regards,
Carlos
Good informations.
nice.
Carlos
...................................................
But even we had informations Steve, go ahead as the question was sent to your thougths about.
We want to listen your opinion, or at least i would be happy to listen you about this subject.
regards,
Carlos
AndrewT said:
Hmmm... Now, how do you classify my output stage where a single ended voltage follower is loaded on a counter - modulated CCS?
Is it single ended or push-pull? 😉
Steve makes the very good point that Class A does not have to have huge idle current to work as Class A.
It all depends on the definition. Some definitions are as AndrewT has outlined; others talk of the full 360 degrees of signal being handled by one, or a parallel group, of devices.
However, examine the basics.
In its simplest form, a Class B amp alternately processes the signal through through two output devices, top and bottom, with a touch more than 180 degrees of signal excursion through each so that at the crossover both are on at the same time - the idle condition. However, the big issue is the handing over of the musical baton; the crossover disjunction. What really mucks it up is when the inactive device turns off, injecting a spray of ringing artefacts into the speaker line. If we can stop the inactive side switching off, keep it barely idling but technically on, and pass signal control to the active side just the same, then we have a Class AB amp doing a Class A tricks.
Could this be what Steve is referring to?
Cheers,
Hugh
It all depends on the definition. Some definitions are as AndrewT has outlined; others talk of the full 360 degrees of signal being handled by one, or a parallel group, of devices.
However, examine the basics.
In its simplest form, a Class B amp alternately processes the signal through through two output devices, top and bottom, with a touch more than 180 degrees of signal excursion through each so that at the crossover both are on at the same time - the idle condition. However, the big issue is the handing over of the musical baton; the crossover disjunction. What really mucks it up is when the inactive device turns off, injecting a spray of ringing artefacts into the speaker line. If we can stop the inactive side switching off, keep it barely idling but technically on, and pass signal control to the active side just the same, then we have a Class AB amp doing a Class A tricks.
Could this be what Steve is referring to?
Cheers,
Hugh
if this modulated trickery is what Steve and/or Wave are referring to then it's not ClassA.AKSA said:
Didn't the Japanese Giants prove that their bastardisations with ClassAA sounded no better and some might say worse than either ClassAB or ClassB?
Andrew,
I ask if this is what Steve means. Why condemn it, have you built and listened to it? In another context, trickery is highly admired.....
Let's wait for Steve's response, hey?
Hugh
I ask if this is what Steve means. Why condemn it, have you built and listened to it? In another context, trickery is highly admired.....
Let's wait for Steve's response, hey?
Hugh
Hello,
I don't think there is anything fuzzy in the definition of class A. To me it's still class A if the 2 devices still function at the considereded level. So yes, if you want class A up to the peak current, you need an idling current which is half of the peak current (or a little more). If the idling current is less, the amp, is just leaving class A before peaking which is not bad since you should rarely reach peaking. So it's just a very high biased AB amp. This is a very staightforward concept, not much to discuss around I think.
Regards
I don't think there is anything fuzzy in the definition of class A. To me it's still class A if the 2 devices still function at the considereded level. So yes, if you want class A up to the peak current, you need an idling current which is half of the peak current (or a little more). If the idling current is less, the amp, is just leaving class A before peaking which is not bad since you should rarely reach peaking. So it's just a very high biased AB amp. This is a very staightforward concept, not much to discuss around I think.
Regards
Hello All,
Just back from seeing Susan (AKA "Dances with Dachshunds") at the hospital. She is in the Intensive Care Unit and receiving great care and recovering well. Today she was aware of where she was at and what happened to her to get her there. She is also regaining strength in her right leg and arm which she could not move yesterday. More test to run tomorrow - but she has passed the critical 1st 24 hour period without relapse - and this is a very good thing.
Just a quick note to update you on our status and to thank you Carlos for your thoughts and your prayers.
ps - Carlos - I sent you a special transmission today and I am thinking good thoughts for you too my friend.
Bye-Bye for now. 😉
Just back from seeing Susan (AKA "Dances with Dachshunds") at the hospital. She is in the Intensive Care Unit and receiving great care and recovering well. Today she was aware of where she was at and what happened to her to get her there. She is also regaining strength in her right leg and arm which she could not move yesterday. More test to run tomorrow - but she has passed the critical 1st 24 hour period without relapse - and this is a very good thing.
Just a quick note to update you on our status and to thank you Carlos for your thoughts and your prayers.
ps - Carlos - I sent you a special transmission today and I am thinking good thoughts for you too my friend.
Bye-Bye for now. 😉
Thank U Chonky 😀 I'm headed back to the hospital for the evening visit - be back later. Peace - Out!
Everything gonna be all rigth Thomas
relax and be happy.
Folks... i am waiting the man to explain us..keep cool and relax guys.
The man has a business, a factory, a product, something that sold many units, had reviews, tests, evaluations..... something exists real world...so...he may have some ideas to us.
World is not squared...also the universe is not routating around earth..so... we have things to listen and learn.. sometimes to reinforce our ideas, sometimes complementary ideas and sometimes brand new ideas.
regards,
Carlos
relax and be happy.
Folks... i am waiting the man to explain us..keep cool and relax guys.
The man has a business, a factory, a product, something that sold many units, had reviews, tests, evaluations..... something exists real world...so...he may have some ideas to us.
World is not squared...also the universe is not routating around earth..so... we have things to listen and learn.. sometimes to reinforce our ideas, sometimes complementary ideas and sometimes brand new ideas.
regards,
Carlos
I was really psyched up to see Steve's schematic. I hope he has not been run off. It is not kind to condemn ones material until you have witnessed it in person.
I applaud you Carlos for starting this thread. We might be on to something and then maybe not. But, I would like to see what the man has done.
Where you go Steve.
Tad
I applaud you Carlos for starting this thread. We might be on to something and then maybe not. But, I would like to see what the man has done.
Where you go Steve.
Tad
I don't know if anyone asked this yet, but where did you listen to this amp and on what speakers? Is this amp really magical or are there other factors at play. Take no offense Carlos, but the speakers you show in your photos and youtube videos seem to be a little on the crude side. if you were listening on these and an improvement was heard then something is up;but if you were listening in another place, with other speakers, different equipment it all makes a difference.
Thank you Tryonziess...... we are near something...you are rigth
My dear complicated number friend.... the Motorola transistor friend.
For sure my speakers are not special....and better speakers may produce better sound... in special when we believe they are better...sometimes they are not...just price, brand, fame....fashion, how they look...when you go to measure you may be surprised the way i was with some professional Sony units down the eigthies.
Some "good" speakers, when you introduce sinusoidal tone...non audible tone, they produce sound.... noises!.... flopt..fluft.... noises when they cannot do that..... that story connected to good is something not a good idea to start because it is a never ending conversation...and not the thread subject.
Other thing you should observe is that when you compare...even if your speaker is not "fashion", the better amplifier sounds better than the non better amplifier...of course there are combinations where some amplifier matches some speaker..but i really want to be into the "real world" area...the speakers i have are those ones and i have to evaluate with those ones and with the ears i have.
Of course other ears, other brain, other speakers, other home... all those things can produce different results...so...what i feel is not a "law"... it is just my point of view.
Man.... our personnel..... say...audiofanatics... leave based into many beliefs and 90 percent of them are myths....if you dissolve all them we gonna need to create others to feed our need or magic.
Also, related the thread subject... Dunlap amplifier was not compared..i felt it wonderfull...but this can change when bring it to comparison under controled conditions... i cannot guarantee the precision of my perception without A to B....i can be fooled by ambience, moment, social relationship, emotions, music, speaker sound and many things changes our perception..... bah!... do not believe me!.... better is not to believe into anyone!.... believe on you!... your perception is good for you... try those things, compare, test, assemble, buy them, test them and find the one you like.
Put a dog barking while you listen and your result may not be good.
I hate US barbecue...i just cannot believe you like that thing filled with a lot of things..even catchup is there!.... to me, barbecue must have salt...and never the refined one...and nothing more than that...so...we are different...my words, my taste cannot be the rule... also not yours...... BUT...my taste is a rule to me...and your tast is a rule to you...so..we cannot discuss.... we will be talking about different things... what is better?.... my barbecue or yours?
regards,
Carlos
My dear complicated number friend.... the Motorola transistor friend.
For sure my speakers are not special....and better speakers may produce better sound... in special when we believe they are better...sometimes they are not...just price, brand, fame....fashion, how they look...when you go to measure you may be surprised the way i was with some professional Sony units down the eigthies.
Some "good" speakers, when you introduce sinusoidal tone...non audible tone, they produce sound.... noises!.... flopt..fluft.... noises when they cannot do that..... that story connected to good is something not a good idea to start because it is a never ending conversation...and not the thread subject.
Other thing you should observe is that when you compare...even if your speaker is not "fashion", the better amplifier sounds better than the non better amplifier...of course there are combinations where some amplifier matches some speaker..but i really want to be into the "real world" area...the speakers i have are those ones and i have to evaluate with those ones and with the ears i have.
Of course other ears, other brain, other speakers, other home... all those things can produce different results...so...what i feel is not a "law"... it is just my point of view.
Man.... our personnel..... say...audiofanatics... leave based into many beliefs and 90 percent of them are myths....if you dissolve all them we gonna need to create others to feed our need or magic.
Also, related the thread subject... Dunlap amplifier was not compared..i felt it wonderfull...but this can change when bring it to comparison under controled conditions... i cannot guarantee the precision of my perception without A to B....i can be fooled by ambience, moment, social relationship, emotions, music, speaker sound and many things changes our perception..... bah!... do not believe me!.... better is not to believe into anyone!.... believe on you!... your perception is good for you... try those things, compare, test, assemble, buy them, test them and find the one you like.
Put a dog barking while you listen and your result may not be good.
I hate US barbecue...i just cannot believe you like that thing filled with a lot of things..even catchup is there!.... to me, barbecue must have salt...and never the refined one...and nothing more than that...so...we are different...my words, my taste cannot be the rule... also not yours...... BUT...my taste is a rule to me...and your tast is a rule to you...so..we cannot discuss.... we will be talking about different things... what is better?.... my barbecue or yours?
regards,
Carlos
Flexibility...open mind we need.
Between Class A and Class AB we have enormous range of currents...and this may be one of our problems to communicate.
We can have:
- Very low bias class AB...just the needed bias to drive transistors "on"...nothing more than that.
- We can have the popular range to one pair output amplifier...from 50 to 100 miliamperes each rail
- We can have some "advanced" biasing.... some more heat into your life...going 250 because someone has perceived some advantage or measured some advantage.
- We can have low bias Class A.... and this can be called advanced bias, or increased bias class AB too...so...it is a matter of therms, names only.
Mr. Dunlap amplifier may be one of those.... has 15 watts iddle...so...seems to me advanced (increased) bias class AB...or if he prefere, reduced bias class A...
You see.... those things can be the same...just words..... i just cannot wait to see what is the real thing..but i have strong suspections that will not be anything too much different than usual...but other solutions used may be interesting..because the sound result, even into cheap speakers is awsome!
regards,
Carlos
Between Class A and Class AB we have enormous range of currents...and this may be one of our problems to communicate.
We can have:
- Very low bias class AB...just the needed bias to drive transistors "on"...nothing more than that.
- We can have the popular range to one pair output amplifier...from 50 to 100 miliamperes each rail
- We can have some "advanced" biasing.... some more heat into your life...going 250 because someone has perceived some advantage or measured some advantage.
- We can have low bias Class A.... and this can be called advanced bias, or increased bias class AB too...so...it is a matter of therms, names only.
Mr. Dunlap amplifier may be one of those.... has 15 watts iddle...so...seems to me advanced (increased) bias class AB...or if he prefere, reduced bias class A...
You see.... those things can be the same...just words..... i just cannot wait to see what is the real thing..but i have strong suspections that will not be anything too much different than usual...but other solutions used may be interesting..because the sound result, even into cheap speakers is awsome!
regards,
Carlos
Carlos, why don't you get more involved into speaker building? They are the biggest limiting factor in sound reproduction.
Biggest limiting factors today are speakers, power amplifiers, microphone amplifiers, and microphones. It is obvious why mechanical transducers distort, but character of their distortions is less audible than character of distortions of amps that carry maximal power amplification, i.e. mic pre and power amps.Eva said:
I was surprised when connected stock Dennon speakers to a hybrid class A amp, so big was the difference.
I was..... during 12 years i have done many speakers
I had a friend in Rio de Janeiro that had tools and i have used to build several....maybe 30 units... and have learned a lot with that.
I have tried several speaker we had down here too...Bravox, Selenium, Novik, Arlen, Philips and some other less important (famous) brands..... i have built crossovers, air core and ferrite core, have tried capacitors and different crossover ideas..series and parallell... have learned how to tune speakers and some tricks not to allow the enclosure to vibrate (only speaker must produce sound).... also many types were tried, dipole, tuned duct, acoustic suspension, folded dipole, Labirint. spherical, exponential mouths... well...many tried...and all them produce their colourations too.
We have to fix variables.... some of them must be fixed and you have to work with them fixed...if all them goes variating you turn crazy to evaluate...so... work on speaker and same time on amplifiers we gonna fool ourselves and we gonna loose reference to work...better to keep speaker standard... the common ones we find everywhere... the reasonable ones and then to find the amplifier can sound great with them... also more brilliant, more valuable to have good sound with 100 dollares speakers than to have good sound paying 10000 dollares for a speaker... they are fixed...my subject, main interest, are amplifiers....more than 4000 made, not time to change direction now... exaclty now that i am turning wise.
I found them not very good..... not satisfied with results and had not a flat microphone, nor anechoic chamber to test them, was hard to make them flat using ears..... no chance to tune them using ears....and as you know very well, and better than i know, they have a frequency response very crazy, very unflat...hard to put them inside plus and minus 6 decibels...try to imagine to put them inside plus and minus 3 decibels.
Speaker were expensive, i could not afford and found them less fascinating them amplifiers.
Now a days powerholics have invaded the market..... we can have crazy things alike "Jack Hammer" and other heavy speakers....some made using rubber..hard to move...needing several watts to move.... this explains why they hold 300watts RMS..... to move we need at least 50 watts...ahahahahah!
I use to check my units using headphones.... they are better than speaker because no room acoustics, no reverberations, less weigth moving..so.... less problems....and comparing i can see how bad my speaker can be...they are not that bad..... amplifiers are more interesting, and i have applied 48 years into them, will not change my subject until i find the "perfect one"
Yes, this one may not exist..but it is very interesting to find it...can you imagine how sad (and happy too) will be when i find it...not more toys to be playing..... i will be plenty of satisfaction listening but will not be anymore building, trying new ones... will be sad too.
I hope i find it one day before to leave earth... will be playing and searching till the end.
I understood the message about speakers.... i know what you mean.....
- "using cheap and non high quality speakers you just cannot evaluate Carlos"
Well folks.... 48 years is not a small time...of course i know the limits of my evaluations.... how good and precise or unprecise they can be... i hope you know too your unprecisions about evaluation too... i know i am not precise and my speakers are not perfect...but even not perfect, the better amplifier communicates better with speaker and compared to another one you perceive clear differences....so... we can compare things using 1 milimeter ruler, or 30 centimeters ruller or using micrometer...... having brain to help us, we can... and this, brain, we all have the same.
Some folks have trained brains, to research...others have memory and knows how to use formulas.... some of them have spatial intelligence and can observe waveforms better than others..but we all have intelligence.
regards,
Carlos
I had a friend in Rio de Janeiro that had tools and i have used to build several....maybe 30 units... and have learned a lot with that.
I have tried several speaker we had down here too...Bravox, Selenium, Novik, Arlen, Philips and some other less important (famous) brands..... i have built crossovers, air core and ferrite core, have tried capacitors and different crossover ideas..series and parallell... have learned how to tune speakers and some tricks not to allow the enclosure to vibrate (only speaker must produce sound).... also many types were tried, dipole, tuned duct, acoustic suspension, folded dipole, Labirint. spherical, exponential mouths... well...many tried...and all them produce their colourations too.
We have to fix variables.... some of them must be fixed and you have to work with them fixed...if all them goes variating you turn crazy to evaluate...so... work on speaker and same time on amplifiers we gonna fool ourselves and we gonna loose reference to work...better to keep speaker standard... the common ones we find everywhere... the reasonable ones and then to find the amplifier can sound great with them... also more brilliant, more valuable to have good sound with 100 dollares speakers than to have good sound paying 10000 dollares for a speaker... they are fixed...my subject, main interest, are amplifiers....more than 4000 made, not time to change direction now... exaclty now that i am turning wise.
I found them not very good..... not satisfied with results and had not a flat microphone, nor anechoic chamber to test them, was hard to make them flat using ears..... no chance to tune them using ears....and as you know very well, and better than i know, they have a frequency response very crazy, very unflat...hard to put them inside plus and minus 6 decibels...try to imagine to put them inside plus and minus 3 decibels.
Speaker were expensive, i could not afford and found them less fascinating them amplifiers.
Now a days powerholics have invaded the market..... we can have crazy things alike "Jack Hammer" and other heavy speakers....some made using rubber..hard to move...needing several watts to move.... this explains why they hold 300watts RMS..... to move we need at least 50 watts...ahahahahah!
I use to check my units using headphones.... they are better than speaker because no room acoustics, no reverberations, less weigth moving..so.... less problems....and comparing i can see how bad my speaker can be...they are not that bad..... amplifiers are more interesting, and i have applied 48 years into them, will not change my subject until i find the "perfect one"
Yes, this one may not exist..but it is very interesting to find it...can you imagine how sad (and happy too) will be when i find it...not more toys to be playing..... i will be plenty of satisfaction listening but will not be anymore building, trying new ones... will be sad too.
I hope i find it one day before to leave earth... will be playing and searching till the end.
I understood the message about speakers.... i know what you mean.....
- "using cheap and non high quality speakers you just cannot evaluate Carlos"
Well folks.... 48 years is not a small time...of course i know the limits of my evaluations.... how good and precise or unprecise they can be... i hope you know too your unprecisions about evaluation too... i know i am not precise and my speakers are not perfect...but even not perfect, the better amplifier communicates better with speaker and compared to another one you perceive clear differences....so... we can compare things using 1 milimeter ruler, or 30 centimeters ruller or using micrometer...... having brain to help us, we can... and this, brain, we all have the same.
Some folks have trained brains, to research...others have memory and knows how to use formulas.... some of them have spatial intelligence and can observe waveforms better than others..but we all have intelligence.
regards,
Carlos
MJL21193..... this nice barbecue you are showing seems that had suggar applied to it
while cooking....because carbon turns steak very dark this way...but taste depends on culture.... something applied into the meat, while preparing it, should have suggar compound into the formula.
I know in US people thinks barbecue is a National food..... not really.... everywhere you have animals and people they have barbecue..since the stone age... also Wrigth brothers have not invented airplanes, was Santos Dumont...he made several turns into Eiffel tower... started with the airplane parked, stopped, he made take off and landing and also he had controls to climb, turn rigth, turn left and descend to land...when at same time Wrigth bothers were crashing filling their noses with sand...ahahahaha.
Greek rice, very much appreciated in my culture together Milano steaks, the ones covered with bread....the ones had eggs and bread in powder and them frite. .... well.... Greek rice, brazilian version maybe uses raisin, sometimes apples cutted into small pieces, carots, and some green small rounded vegetables too mixed with rice.... flavour is sweet..... it is disgusting to me sugar and salt together.... to me salt are something not interesting to mix with suggar.
So.... to me my barbecue is better..for you your barbecue is better.
But i think your barbecue is pretty, this colour is very nice.
Also i do not like it bloody.... i love it roasted outside and rose inside.
Those things are very personnel...connected to our local culture.
Enjoy your barbecue my Transistorized friend.
Cheers!
regards,
Carlos
while cooking....because carbon turns steak very dark this way...but taste depends on culture.... something applied into the meat, while preparing it, should have suggar compound into the formula.
I know in US people thinks barbecue is a National food..... not really.... everywhere you have animals and people they have barbecue..since the stone age... also Wrigth brothers have not invented airplanes, was Santos Dumont...he made several turns into Eiffel tower... started with the airplane parked, stopped, he made take off and landing and also he had controls to climb, turn rigth, turn left and descend to land...when at same time Wrigth bothers were crashing filling their noses with sand...ahahahaha.
Greek rice, very much appreciated in my culture together Milano steaks, the ones covered with bread....the ones had eggs and bread in powder and them frite. .... well.... Greek rice, brazilian version maybe uses raisin, sometimes apples cutted into small pieces, carots, and some green small rounded vegetables too mixed with rice.... flavour is sweet..... it is disgusting to me sugar and salt together.... to me salt are something not interesting to mix with suggar.
So.... to me my barbecue is better..for you your barbecue is better.
But i think your barbecue is pretty, this colour is very nice.
Also i do not like it bloody.... i love it roasted outside and rose inside.
Those things are very personnel...connected to our local culture.
Enjoy your barbecue my Transistorized friend.
Cheers!
regards,
Carlos
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