Crud. Yet another example of internet sarcasm getting lost in translation due to some people actually taking the magic rocks seriously.
One of Kunchur's listening panel did not have hearing that went that high and could still detect 5 uS timing errors. To resolve that in a digitization (and given perfect anti-aliasing foilters) you'd need at least 88k sampling.
The boot thou refers to the failure of the original signal to satisfy the mathematical bandwidth requirements to be digitized at 44k which causes all sorts of spurie to be generated.
dave
dfdye, how about something simpler for a first run? Take two small pieces of PCB or copper sheet, on each mount a chassis RCA and BNC directly adjacent, perhaps touching, with maximum continuity between grounds. Solder a 1/2" jumper between RCA and BNC center pin on each sheet. Silver if that floats your boat. 🙂 On one PCB/RCA pair terminate the RCA with a 10 kohm resistor to act as load, on the other solder a BNC pigtail to the RCA as a generator injection point. Feed the latter a signal and do a differential measurement between BNCs.
This would represent ground zero, a simplistic protocol that doesn't factor circuit interactions, chassis ground effects or RF, probably many other elements in a typical home setup. If the instruments are digitizing I would record for further analysis, one of the hurdles I have as a hobbyist with software spectrum analyzers for example are the unknowns of the developer's weighting and decay algorithms. Arguably even video cards and their drivers impact the visual display, especially when frame rates drop. Often a circuit change will make little or no visual difference on the display when the changes in peak/average ratio are very audible ear to tweeter.
This would represent ground zero, a simplistic protocol that doesn't factor circuit interactions, chassis ground effects or RF, probably many other elements in a typical home setup. If the instruments are digitizing I would record for further analysis, one of the hurdles I have as a hobbyist with software spectrum analyzers for example are the unknowns of the developer's weighting and decay algorithms. Arguably even video cards and their drivers impact the visual display, especially when frame rates drop. Often a circuit change will make little or no visual difference on the display when the changes in peak/average ratio are very audible ear to tweeter.
I understand what you are proposing, and though it sounds pretty good, there is no "control" in the system. Without this, accurate measurement of the differences of the response would be difficult. Think about it this way--if I gave you two weights, one weighing 50.0 lbs, and the other weighing 50.1 lbs, it would be pretty difficult for your bio-mechanical scale (IE your arm) to tell the difference between the two weights. Now, suppose I suspended each of them from a 50.0 lbs counter-balancing support. Now, the difference of 0.1 lbs should be VERY apparent. The same idea applies with the measurement of the cable response. If we measure the deviation in the response vs. a known standard, then the difference between cables should become much more apparent than if we simply compare two absolute measurements of their responses separately. This is the reason I rambled on so much about a 3' BNC RG-58 cable. I have a ton of them lying around, and they are extremely common. Also, it requires no additional construction to interface to my oscilloscope and pulse generator! (I'm just lazy like that. . . )
Also, three feet is a pretty common length for interconnects, though I personally like them a bit shorter to keep things more tidy. Still, assuming signals travel through cables at 1 ns/foot for RG-58, even if there is a bit of a difference between the lengths of the cables, there shouldn't be an audible impact simply from slightly different signal paths. (yes, the TDS-380 can see the difference between and 3' and 4' cable, and yes, we do take into account cable length and the distance light travels over our optical tables when trying to synchronize laser pulses with an iCCD camera recording the data) If you are worrying about this, then you really should get a brace to lock your head into position while listening since moving your head would have a greater impact than 1 ns!
I will be using a Tektronix TDS-380 oscilloscope. It is indeed a digitizing scope, but I will be directly recording the traces via a GPIB interface I wrote for the scope (Tek makes it pretty easy. They do a great job making their instruments easy to program and interface with other equipment, and document the everliving snot out of them!) I will not be using an external software processing algorithm to analyze the data, at least in the temporal domain. I am not sure what Simon uses, but if he gets in on this you can ask him!
David
I'm not sure I follow, but it occurs to me I missed a (cough) important step. Connect the cable under test to the two chassis RCA connectors above. The control becomes 1/2" piece of wire connected to the source-side BNC. The reasoning is 1/2" of wire is the shortest reasonably expected length between the input jack of any piece of audio electronics and its first buffering or amplifying device. Since your scope is presumably calibrated and accurate to 'pico-ounces', doesn't that capture the requirement?
I can only recall seeing a picture somewhere.
Apart from vibration damping, I can't see that it could have any effect but then also, I've been proven wrong so many times with things that I believed can't influence SQ (like power cords 🙂 ) that I would rather not say anything before I've tried it.
They look like small rocks to me.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
se
"The original glass bottles for Brilliant Pebbles have been replaced by clear zip lock bags, which have a more linear response than glass."Brilliant Pebbles crystals audio resonance room tuning vibration
Don't worry, I reckon they're ********e too.
No samples from me, tho I DID get some rainbow foil from May Belt. Plus the cream.
Then I got tired of even wanting to test audiophile idiocies and so, well I guess they're around here somewhere.
The reason I asked andre is, well you see, there is about as much basis for cables as there is for a product like this.
Well, not quite, we DO know some cables can have some effect on some systems...all predictable beforehand. The pebbles ARE pure bunk.
BUT, a) I will be able to find people who swear by them, just as you do with cables and power cords. b) I will be able to find in the 'literature' for them that 'science does not know everything' yada yada, once again breakthroughs in physics are occurring in hi fi...sigh. c) I am pretty confident that if I 'challenged' a believer in pebbles to do a blind test it would be refused.
Don't think I need to point out anymore similarities.
It was just I found it interesting that it seems we all have our limits, some further out than others, but limits all the same.
There do seem to be a few that have NO limits!!
http://www.theadvancedaudiophile.com/
That was all. Thanks for your honest answer.
The Machina Dynamica is a great laugh!
This is a recent addition from their website:
"The Teleportation Tweak is a phenomenal new product discovered and developed by Machina Dynamica for improving audio and video systems remotely over long distances. The fundamental principle of operation of the Teleportation Tweak is quantum teleportation. How the Teleportation Tweak works is the proprietary property of Machina Dynamica.
The Teleportation Tweak is independent of distance and will work anywhere in the world you happen to be located. The Teleportation Tweak is performed frequently for distances between 1000 and 4000 miles and has been performed for distances greater than 10,000 miles. The Teleportation Tweak works equally well using your landline phone or cell phone.
The Teleportation Tweak has a profound effect on the sound of your system: (1) Clearer, (2) More information, (3) Greater frequency extension and (4) Lower distortion. You obtain the the Teleportation Tweak during a phone call to Machina Dynamica from your landline phone or cell phone; you can make the call from any room in your house. The tweak itself takes about 20 seconds and will sound like a series of sharp, mechanical pulses.
The Teleportation Tweak will also improve any video system in your house, including plasma, HDTV and high end projection systems -- better contrast, color saturation, color fidelity and definition. The Teleportation Tweak works for iPhone and other smart phones when listening to music is a priority.
It is not necessary for your audio or video system to be ON at the time of the telephone call. However, for ease of A/B comparing the Teleportation Tweak before and after the telephone call, you should turn the audio and/or video system ON prior to the call. Then you can evaluate a few favorite tracks BEFORE AND AFTER the Teleportation Tweak is performed. You can also evaluate the picture quality of the video system before and after the call."
Star Trek joke: "very funny, Scotty, now beam up my clothes!"
Almost as funny as the van den Hul health ring:
Van den Hul: Health Ring
Quote: "It is meant to either be worn as a wrist bracelet or to be used as a room acoustic conditioner and aids in neutralizing negative disturbances by means of its highly structured molecular composition.
Health applications
When worn as a bracelet our Health Rings improve the physical condition and reduce stress.
A.J. van den Hul mentions:
"These rings are in many cases a help to patients suffering from mainly mental problems after a whiplash. (Whiplash is the instability of the spine and neck after a car -or equivalent- accident).
Patients often react very positive on these rings. It has partly to do with mental blockades. Over the past seven years that I've worked with these rings many have been made and created many happy owners".
In health applications the ring's beneficial effect usually takes a few days to become noticeable. (Here the ring is best to be worn continuously, day and night).
Room acoustic conditioning applications
The Health Ring forms a different approach to neutralize soundstaging problems.
When applied on critical spots the rings always produce a better soundstage.
The rings are to be positioned at specific places in the room and on the equipment and the results are almost immediately audible."
In my opininion, this is humor at a sophisticated level - however, many audiophiles in Denmark think AJ van den Hul has lost his marbles after this came out.
In out local Danish website (hifi4all.dk), I have been involved in several discussions about tweaks. In my experience, the spectrum of persons writing about tweaks includes:
Sceptics, who advocate that if something can not be measured objectively, then it does not exist.
Scepticist, who advocate that only tweaks that can be shown to pass doubleblind "placebo" controlled tests should be embraced.
People that rely entirely on listening when finetuning their set up.
People that buy expensive tweaks based on reviews or advertisements (quite often they disregard inexpensive tweaks).
And the occasional pranksters, as demonstrated above.
Van den Hul: Health Ring
Quote: "It is meant to either be worn as a wrist bracelet or to be used as a room acoustic conditioner and aids in neutralizing negative disturbances by means of its highly structured molecular composition.
Health applications
When worn as a bracelet our Health Rings improve the physical condition and reduce stress.
A.J. van den Hul mentions:
"These rings are in many cases a help to patients suffering from mainly mental problems after a whiplash. (Whiplash is the instability of the spine and neck after a car -or equivalent- accident).
Patients often react very positive on these rings. It has partly to do with mental blockades. Over the past seven years that I've worked with these rings many have been made and created many happy owners".
In health applications the ring's beneficial effect usually takes a few days to become noticeable. (Here the ring is best to be worn continuously, day and night).
Room acoustic conditioning applications
The Health Ring forms a different approach to neutralize soundstaging problems.
When applied on critical spots the rings always produce a better soundstage.
The rings are to be positioned at specific places in the room and on the equipment and the results are almost immediately audible."
In my opininion, this is humor at a sophisticated level - however, many audiophiles in Denmark think AJ van den Hul has lost his marbles after this came out.
In out local Danish website (hifi4all.dk), I have been involved in several discussions about tweaks. In my experience, the spectrum of persons writing about tweaks includes:
Sceptics, who advocate that if something can not be measured objectively, then it does not exist.
Scepticist, who advocate that only tweaks that can be shown to pass doubleblind "placebo" controlled tests should be embraced.
People that rely entirely on listening when finetuning their set up.
People that buy expensive tweaks based on reviews or advertisements (quite often they disregard inexpensive tweaks).
And the occasional pranksters, as demonstrated above.
Yes, i believe that cable does make a difference, however it makes more of a difference over longer runs.
If you can cope with it, you cant beat thick guage copper mains cable.
If you can cope with it, you cant beat thick guage copper mains cable.
Didn't think you have, I was just pulling your leg. 😀
Never heard of May Belt, rainbow foil and cream.... she sound nice. 😀
Wow, at least the cables are in the signal path, even the power cable.
My sample of 'Brilliant Pebbles are very small flakes of the larger pebbles. However, they look like minerals to me, not ordinary rocks.
Will it float?
I've got drawers and shelves full of minerals of every conceivable shape and size... guess that's why my stereo sound s so rock-solid with phenomenal imaging and extraordinary response, eh?😉
One of my reference systems...😀
more and BIGGER rocks...😀
another restoration-in-progress
John L.
I've got drawers and shelves full of minerals of every conceivable shape and size... guess that's why my stereo sound s so rock-solid with phenomenal imaging and extraordinary response, eh?😉
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
One of my reference systems...😀
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
more and BIGGER rocks...😀
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
another restoration-in-progress
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
John L.
Crud. Yet another example of internet sarcasm getting lost in translation due to some people actually taking the magic rocks seriously.
Yeah 😀
But you did get Andre to post
"Like I said, feel free to prove me wrong. Ball is in your court. The impetus for proof is on the person proposing the effect. "
Which I found really ironic 😀
I worked with Firestone and Bridgestone 15 years ago. I have been on the software side of general distribution/manufacturing for 20 years now.
and yes I stay at Holiday Inns about 100 room nights a year! 😉
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