I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[boconnor]

How come there isnt a thread on power cables next ? 😉

Oh......please........no. Don't go there.

 

[brianco]

Ah! I can see how you reach this conclusion but unfortunately it is false! If your ears don't work you hear nothing, so clearly you need some working ears!
But, and this is a big but, what you eventually perceive is very much removed from what air vibrations get into your ear.

Your brain takes what it gets from your ears, compares it to what you expected, integrates it what you experienced last time, matches it to the shape, color and design of the source, runs it through your listening environment, then filters it for your 'body state' (how you feel, your emotions, whether you are tired or not etc) and then finally presents the result for your concious perception.

It's a wonder at all that we can compare what we hear at all!

jd

Your second paragraph I accept - for now.

Regarding your first paragraph, however, it is not simply a case of having on one hand 🙂)) ears which do not work and on the other, ears which do work.

Ears which do not work are easily understood whereas ears which do work may work inefficiently to a large or lesser extent. The range of variation of hearing possibility ranges enormous between being just capable of hearing some sound to having for all intents and purposes perfect hearing.

My implied point which is relevant to this thread is that those people with very good and efficient ears may well hear differences in timbre, range, spatial information etc. between cables which - in the lab - show identical measurements. Those with less than good hearing may - most likely - miss each and every variation.

 

[boconnor]

Im genuine in my curiousity because at the end of the day if there is truth I want to learn more. I have no problems whatsoever changing my opinion if there are facts out there. I keep asking, I keep search but still none.

As I understand it controlled tests (double blind) show no audible differences in cables of same length, diameter etc. for audio frequencies.

If you believe that well designed measurements get you closer to the truth then the guidance is to get some well made, low cost (max $2 per metre) cables and spend the balance of your money elsewhere.

 

[Panicos K]

As I understand it controlled tests (double blind) show no audible differences in cables of same length, diameter etc. for audio frequencies.

.

Try similar length,diameter etc..... copper vs pure silver cables and you will understand differently.

 

[fredex]

..............My implied point which is relevant to this thread is that those people with very good and efficient ears may well hear differences in timbre, range, spatial information etc. between cables which - in the lab - show identical measurements. Those with less than good hearing may - most likely - miss each and every variation.

This is logical and obviously human hearing abilities vary.
It is also true that people who claim to have good ears can be easily fooled into hearing differences where none exist. Such as using the same cable twice in a test where the listener believes the cable has been changed. Same cable same ears same equipment same enviroment, how could this happen?

 

[Andre Visser]

What's worse, she thinks janneman walks on water.😀

You should start to worry!!!! 😀

 

[brianco]

My sole point is that people with good ears may hear differences whereas those with poor hearing may not. The question which you pose has to do with psychoacoustics as opposed to the mechanisms of hearing per se.

 

[Panicos K]

This is logical and obviously human hearing abilities vary.
It is also true that people who claim to have good ears can be easily fooled into hearing differences where none exist. Such as using the same cable twice in a test where the listener believes the cable has been changed. Same cable same ears same equipment same enviroment, how could this happen?

When you remove the cable and put it back,it will not sound the same unless it works for some time.Still,an experienced listener would at least say the "two" cables sound close.So,you could say there are people who claim and others who hear differences.Now imagine what happens with those who do not have "good ears".....
Fooling someone with two same cables,is the same as one fooling you with two totally different cables when you think they are the same😀

 

[Panicos K]

My sole point is that people with good ears may hear differences whereas those with poor hearing may not. The question which you pose has to do with psychoacoustics as opposed to the mechanisms of hearing per se.

Your point is correct.People with poor hearing CANNOT hear differences.That is the only thing that has been proven.Now,how they prefer one thing to another,I don't know.Maybe they have better and more imaginative brains.

 

[fredex]

My sole point is that people with good ears may hear differences whereas those with poor hearing may not. The question which you pose has to do with psychoacoustics as opposed to the mechanisms of hearing per se.

You want to separate the 'mechanisms of hearing' from psychoacoustics. I don't think you can.

 

[Panicos K]

You want to separate the 'mechanisms of hearing' from psychoacoustics. I don't think you can.

But nature can.

 

[brianco]

This is logical and obviously human hearing abilities vary.
It is also true that people who claim to have good ears can be easily fooled into hearing differences where none exist. Such as using the same cable twice in a test where the listener believes the cable has been changed. Same cable same ears same equipment same enviroment, how could this happen?

You want to separate the 'mechanisms of hearing' from psychoacoustics. I don't think you can.

I am talking of the ear as a transducer. What the brain and/ego does with the information passed is a totally separate process.

 

[Curly Woods]

Ah, that takes me back. In the HiFi magazine era there were countless examples of the "good woman" popping her head around the kitchen door saying, "what have you done to the stereo dear it sounds so much better."
Nice to hear that even with separate living rooms this still goes on. 🙂

It is not our living room it is my listening room. She spends as much time there as I do, if not more. I think that she has purchased more music this past year than I have 🙂 If Momma ain't happy, nobody is happy 😀 She wants to put a projector system in there for a home theater setup, but I say no. It is a music room, not a lounge 🙂

 

[Curly Woods]

The soon-to-be Mrs. Y made this observation after a listening session at a hifi show: "They change something that doesn't make any difference, listen to the same piece of ****ty music each time, do this over and over, and it still doesn't sound any different."

Not that she's cynical...😀

Then I am really blessed! My wife has a great ear, but she has been around this stuff for years.

 

[Curly Woods]

How come there isnt a thread on power cables next ? 😉

Why? A lot of people here can not hear the differences in signal cabling, why pile on another burden 🙂

 

[planet10]

How come there isnt a thread on power cables next ? 😉

Oh......please........no. Don't go there.

At least there are some artcicles which show real measurable differences.

dave

 

[rdf]

This is logical and obviously human hearing abilities vary.
It is also true that people who claim to have good ears can be easily fooled into hearing differences where none exist.

What's universally missed is no logical divide exists between imagining an additive phenomena and a negative one. If, for example, a listener can imagine device 'A' has more top end than device 'B' when measurements show no evidence, why couldn't another listener's imagination conjure up that extra top end when device 'A' measures slightly less top end than 'B' and claim no audible differences?

 

[jleaman]

Why? A lot of people here can not hear the differences in signal cabling, why pile on another burden 🙂

It's probably nothing to do with hearing, i think with power cords it's more about shielding, having a good shielded power cable will eliminate the frequency getting out of the cable and into other cables and things in the audio room.

Having good cables makes a difference, but having good power conditioner / power cords will help too.

 

[fredex]

When you remove the cable and put it back,it will not sound the same unless it works for some time.

If true this would apply in all cases whether the cables were the same or different.

Still,an experienced listener would at least say the "two" cables sound close.So,you could say there are people who claim and others who hear differences.Now imagine what happens with those who do not have "good ears".....

I should have said 'people with proven good ears'. BTW what would your definition of good ears be.......don't tell me 🙂

Fooling someone with two same cables,is the same as one fooling you with two totally different cables when you think they are the same

I can't argue with that! 😀

 

[SY]

Then I am really blessed! My wife has a great ear, but she has been around this stuff for years.

Well, she was right. The stuff they were comparing really didn't sound any different and the music really was ****ty. She's brutally honest. It will be interesting to see how she reacts to the stuff at ETF next week; Kraftwerk blasted through horns may actually cause her to go postal.