I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

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#4,421
Panicos K said:



This is your answer to a person who said several times that the only thing he cares about when testing cables,is SOUND.He asked a simple thing about his cables,his system,his decision.Replying the way you did,IMO,shows that you totally ignored him and his statements,something that could easily be taken as questioning his honesty and intelligence.True,you haven't used the word "idiot"or any other,but replying in the mood and fashion of others that did,it is almost the same thing,only well covered.

With much respect-honestly.
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This person has to be fairly naive, to make such a claim, so considering that, and tthe fact that Janneman has explained this about 100 times by now, I'd say it's quite cool that he can still put a smile on his face, and explain the same thing once more.

Just look one post above, and you'll see a reply directed towards me, which will not receive a reply, simply cause I can't bring myself to waste the effort.


Magura 🙂
 
#4,422
Andre Visser said:


It depends on what you mean by "exotic signal chains". Surely a recording should be made to sound as close as possible to the real performance using neutral equipment.
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I mean inaccessable. Financially restrictive. Something harder to find than just a normal cable with some switchcraft or neutrik connectors.

All cables are bad, the better ones only less bad. The best cable should be the one that has the least effect on the signal/sound.
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I think if you are getting drastic differences in all types of cables maybe the cable is not the causation of this unstability. In my active system I have to assume these vaiables are reduced to non-issues because I just don't hear whatever is effecting you.


Surely cables can be made to roll of the high end, it is also possible to create a bright high end, LF can also be changed, to me that is only a band-aid for a flawed system that will never perform optimally.

I believe the system (including cables) must be as neutral and realistic sounding, as possible. Certain cables can give you more detail and a more focussed soundstage while being neutral, this is the cables I regard as good.
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How can you be so sure that the cable which gives the impression of tighter focus is not performing as a band-aid just like in the case of Frequency Response? Maybe the source recording is supposed to have that lack of focus.
 
#4,425
Key said:



How can you be so sure that the cable which gives the impression of tighter focus is not performing as a band-aid just like in the case of Frequency Response? Maybe the source recording is supposed to have that lack of focus.
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I believe that if this was really the intention of the recording,a good quality cable that helps a system to reveal its qualities,will show this intention in a more convincing and believable way.Surely it doesn't have to cost a fortune.
 
#4,426
jlsem said:
A couple of years ago, a company called Music Matters began releasing newly re-mastered editions of stereo Blue Note jazz records........ Later, Music Matters announced that after the third installment, forthcoming issues would be of improved quality based on their re-wiring the signal chain in the mastering room with AudioQuest cable....... As it turns out, they should have left them alone because the newer releases are slightly inferior to the first issues. So, once again, high expectations were not met and disappointment ensued.
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Yeah, they switched from some plain Canare's right? Is this something you guys have told AcousTech? Are they still using AudioQuest?

This was another case where the engineer said it didn't change the tonality but made the soundstage more detailed.
 
#4,427
Key said:
I mean inaccessable. Financially restrictive. Something harder to find than just a normal cable with some switchcraft or neutrik connectors.
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Well I've tested some cables that are very "financially restrictive" 🙂 to me at least, what can I say, some day perhaps. I've also listened to others that did not impress me at all.

Key said:
I think if you are getting drastic differences in all types of cables maybe the cable is not the causation of this unstability. In my active system I have to assume these vaiables are reduced to non-issues because I just don't hear whatever is effecting you.
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Didn't say it is drastic differences, noticable yes.

Key said:
How can you be so sure that the cable which gives the impression of tighter focus is not performing as a band-aid just like in the case of Frequency Response? Maybe the source recording is supposed to have that lack of focus.
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I can't see that more detail and a more focussed soundstage can be created with cables if it were not there to begin with, detail get lost, you can't get it back again.

If I get a recording with lack of focus, I consider it a bad recording, I want to hear a picture, that way it is much easier to hear the finer detail of each instrument.
 
#4,428
Panicos K said:



I believe that if this was really the intention of the recording,a good quality cable that helps a system to reveal its qualities,will show this intention in a more convincing and believable way.Surely it doesn't have to cost a fortune.
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I guess my point is that ADC/DACs and tape machines could conceivably have a lack of focus for whatever mitigating factors. If you are masking this on the fly with a cable band-aid how will you ever notice this deficiency let alone be able to address it?
 
#4,429
Andre Visser said:


Well I've tested some cables that are very "financially restrictive" 🙂 to me at least, what can I say, some day perhaps. I've also listened to others that did not impress me at all.



Didn't say it is drastic differences, noticable yes.



I can't see that more detail and a more focussed soundstage can be created with cables if it were not there to begin with, detail get lost, you can't get it back again.

If I get a recording with lack of focus, I consider it a bad recording, I want to hear a picture, that way it is much easier to hear the finer detail of each instrument.
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I guess focus is way too vauge for me to even discuss with you. Focus is probably the result of many different factors and is not just one tangible thing like FR.
 
#4,430
Key said:
I guess focus is way too vauge for me to even discuss with you. Focus is probably the result of many different factors and is not just one tangible thing like FR.
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I believe focus have more to do with preservation of detail and the exact timing and level of the sound that reach our ears. If we distort these, the 'picture' become blurred or unstable.
 
#4,432
Key said:


I guess my point is that ADC/DACs and tape machines could conceivably have a lack of focus for whatever mitigating factors. If you are masking this on the fly with a cable band-aid how will you ever notice this deficiency let alone be able to address it?
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I don't think a good cable wll mask any lack of focus or anything else in a recording,unless it is a "purpose built" one chosen to mask certain things,or a really bad one.
 
#4,433
Andre Visser said:


I believe focus have more to do with preservation of detail and the exact timing and level of the sound that reach our ears. If we distort these, the 'picture' become blurred or unstable.
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That is only assuming that the source is pristine. Probably to the point of being theoretical and not real. In the real world there can be a push - pull or an emphasis - de-emphasis taking place. I have heard it called "asynchronous distortions" but I am not sure that term is correct. It's when the playback chain is inaccurate in a symmetrical fashion so that when played on that chain the distortions will go unnoticed. But then take that source and play it on a chain that is not de-emphasizing that problem and the deficiencies become glaringly obvious.

Panicos K said:



I don't think a good cable wll mask any lack of focus or anything else in a recording,unless it is a "purpose built" one chosen to mask certain things,or a really bad one.
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I am not so sure.
 
#4,435
Yes I agree. I just am always doubting what is "neutral". Anytime you change your system how are you sure you are stepping closer to neutral and not in the direction of "sounding good"? And more precisley sounding good for one specific recording or a set of recordings and not another set of recordings.
 
#4,436
andy19191 said:
> ........There has never been a debate about audiophile cables among the technically literate or even those with a modest amount of common sense because there is nothing to debate. How cables and sound perception function has been long known and audiophile believers are not putting forward anything that conflicts with it. The debate exists solely among those interested in the products of the audiophile industry.
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Yes this is how I see it also. But I find the people who swap cables really fascinating. More to do with psychology than the compression and rarefaction of air.
 
#4,437
And btw a simple way to manipulate "focus" would be to manipulate phase response. If there is a distortion in the phase delay of the source or somewhere in the chain and you place a de-emphasis distortion in the phase response in the cable it will result in a band-aid cable for focus just like frequency response.
 
#4,438
Key said:
Yes I agree. I just am always doubting what is "neutral". Anytime you change your system how are you sure you are stepping closer to neutral and not in the direction of "sounding good"? And more precisley sounding good for one specific recording or a set of recordings and not another set of recordings.
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We all are and I guess we always will be in doubt of what is neutral.Perhaps what recording /mixing engineers decide to put on cd or record is the final "reference" that must be faithfully reproduced by our playback systems.But,if in the end we think that the recording/mixing engineer's decision is one we don't like,we can try to set-up a system that sounds good to us,till we listen to another recording on our system that sounds "bad"again.Oops.Now what?Isn't this one of the reasons why audio is such a wonderful hobby?🙂 A "totally neutral"system is perhaps one that measures "perfectly".A satisfying system is the one its owner finds musical,well,at least most of the time.🙂
 
#4,439
fredex said:


Yes this is how I see it also. But I find the people who swap cables really fascinating. More to do with psychology than the compression and rarefaction of air.
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For the majority of audiophiles,swaping cables after they make their choices,is probably not an "every day"worry.I'm speaking of myself of course and many friends,so I cannot be 100% sure.
 
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