fredex:
Perhaps what you call "addition" could as well be called "less loss".Anything different than PVC for example is less loss,even preferable loss if you like.This IMO is not a problem in hifi.
Perhaps what you call "addition" could as well be called "less loss".Anything different than PVC for example is less loss,even preferable loss if you like.This IMO is not a problem in hifi.
janneman said:
Yes sure but also detecting that something is wrong with a system that you did not listen to for two months, then discover that the cables between CD and pre-amp were inserted the wrong way round (twisted pair shielded cable) must count for something.
janneman said:
When you learn to do something new and difficult, it take lots of concentration and exercise at first, but soon that will get done by the subconscious, allowing the conscious to concentrate on doing even more.
janneman said:
Not pulling your leg, the cables I choose to use have nothing to do with any of these, it is chosen for sounding the most natural and detailled of all those I have access to. There are something better that I can only dream of for now though.
Panicos K said:
Perhaps not. After a signal has gone through electronics it has a slightly different shape. You can alter the shape by adding noise and harmonics. I guess you could alter the shape by taking stuff away, but what stuff?
fredex:
Are you talking about synergy perhaps 🙂 ....just asking
From what, all manufacturers say,their effort is to transfer the signal with minimum losses(equipment or cables etc...)If this can be achieved better or more successfully by the use of this cable or the other,personally I have no problem with this.Note that "better or successfully" differs from person to person IMO.
Are you talking about synergy perhaps 🙂 ....just asking
From what, all manufacturers say,their effort is to transfer the signal with minimum losses(equipment or cables etc...)If this can be achieved better or more successfully by the use of this cable or the other,personally I have no problem with this.Note that "better or successfully" differs from person to person IMO.
fredex said:
If charge are taken away and then put back a moment later, it can surely damage detail and soundstage focus.
janneman said:
Here we have nearly 4500 posts.Have you notice anyone who might have taken any decisions for reasons similar to those you mentioned above? If it means anything to you,I hate yellow colour and my chosen interconnects are yellow,I paid for them,I wish they were shorter,I don't care about what my friends say,I have seen thicker and more impressive interconnects and connectors,I know there are more "famous"names,and I was given over the years many other interconnects for free or at cost price,cheaper and more expensive than the ones I use.Perhaps it is about time that you realize that there is not only a basket in which you decide to put all "idiots"because this is your opinion.There are among us members who design and make more important things than basic diy stuff.It is a great mistake to consider them as stupid because they do not say anything.
With lots of respect
Yes, quite a few, noting well the words "similar to." The list gives a flavor for the sorts of things that shape people's expectations, both conscious and subconscious, but is certainly by no means a comprehensive one. Many, many things shape our beliefs that don't include the actual air vibrations impinging on our ears.
Andre Visser said:
Yes but you understand I am talking about the monitoring chain right? That the actually recorded data does not get passed through this cable unless it is being played through it on the fly.
And I asked the question not to be a smart *** but because I really don't know the right answer. I do lean to one side of the argument since I can pick apart a recording like nobody's business and my system is brutally revealing on bad recordings while heavenly on great sources. I use standard 1/4" TRS ICs that do not cost an arm and a leg and while I can hear differences in a lot of things I have no business hearing a difference in - SRC algorithms, Compression Algorithms, adding small passive electronics into the chain etc... I can not hear a significant difference that leads me to believe I am getting more accuracy when I audition expensive or exotic cables. Actually it's the opposite I think the cables are performing a stop gap measure that should be addressed at the tracking, mixing, or mastering stage and NOT the playback stage.
You fail completely to understand the point I was trying to make. I was calling you out for the ridiculous pseudo-Darwinistic statement you made claiming an "evolutionary advantage" for not seeing the world in an accurate and objective way. The idea that people suffer clinical depression because they are unable to distort incoming information while the rest of us are only able to cope because we live in some kind of La-La Land is absurd. Attributing it to Darwinism is a demi-intellectual crutch to add substance to your idea. These attempts to explain away the experiences of others by attributing them to a flawed brain function that we possess because there exists an "evolutionary advantage" to being delusional are silly and deserve to be discounted.
John
This still doesn't answer the question of why in at least half if not most situations expectations are not met. Disappointment is the order of the day when auditioning audio gear. Just because some people are influenced by things like appearance and cost doesn't mean the rest of us allow our observations to be distorted in the same way.
John
Key said:
Don't be fooled by "expensive or exotic" cables, not all of them are good. That's the reason why I keep saying 'listen first on your own system before buying'.
Not sure what you mean by the second part, I believe good (neutral and detailled) equipment and cables are needed in both recording and playback systems, detail and accuracy can be lost in any part of the chain, leaving overall performance compromised.
SY said:
SY, just because some are stupid enough to get influenced by things like cable colour or "similar", doesn't proof that everybody is stupid. 😀
What I mean is that when I mix I do not want the playback chain to be flattering. I do not want it injecting life into the signal that is not present on the source recording. What I am aiming for is a 1:1 listening experience with my target audience as easily as possible. And pursuing exotic signal chains it seems obvious to me is not the way to go about this.
I am totally open to idea that this "life" or whatever that people claim cables do might actually be a tool that I am missing. But as I and many others have said we do not have cotton in our ears, we do not have flabby unresolving systems, we just don't think any sonic signature an above average/exotic/whatever the moving argument is this time cable can impart can be anything other than INACCURACY.
You can construct a cable that rolls of the high end on CDs. This cable will sound a hell of a lot better than a neutral cable. But you know what will happen if I mix with that cable in my system? I will end up with a mix that has way too much high end. The same thing goes with any descriptor you can put on a mix - air, depth, life, electronic feel. This game can be largely a game of push and pull when the actual process should just flow.
I am totally open to idea that this "life" or whatever that people claim cables do might actually be a tool that I am missing. But as I and many others have said we do not have cotton in our ears, we do not have flabby unresolving systems, we just don't think any sonic signature an above average/exotic/whatever the moving argument is this time cable can impart can be anything other than INACCURACY.
You can construct a cable that rolls of the high end on CDs. This cable will sound a hell of a lot better than a neutral cable. But you know what will happen if I mix with that cable in my system? I will end up with a mix that has way too much high end. The same thing goes with any descriptor you can put on a mix - air, depth, life, electronic feel. This game can be largely a game of push and pull when the actual process should just flow.
Incorrect categorization. There's a difference in evolutionary pressure between false positives and false negatives in sensory processing. (all of them, not just hearing).
fredex said:
Thanks Fredex, always nice to play against you guys, it was quite a game to watch.
fredex said:
Not sure if it were you, I was just joking anyhow. 😀
Andre Visser said:
Hmm, did you notice that by the above sentence, you just have proven yourself fairly naive?
Magura 🙂
Key said:
It depends on what you mean by "exotic signal chains". Surely a recording should be made to sound as close as possible to the real performance using neutral equipment.
Key said:
All cables are bad, the better ones only less bad. The best cable should be the one that has the least effect on the signal/sound.
Key said:
Surely cables can be made to roll of the high end, it is also possible to create a bright high end, LF can also be changed, to me that is only a band-aid for a flawed system that will never perform optimally.
I believe the system (including cables) must be as neutral and realistic sounding, as possible. Certain cables can give you more detail and a more focussed soundstage while being neutral, this is the cables I regard as good.
Magura said:
Did you notice the smiley at the end?
My point is that we can not make generalisations based on the behaviour or believes of some.
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