I am a believer of the LCR doesnt in itself present problems.
if my cable has an L of 5uH ...so what?
the HF is only going to be attenuated at over 15kHz, if i remember right, and by a decibel at most.
However, i do think that thew combined effects of the LCR values can sometimes create a resonator, which will obviously mar ANY loudspeaker attached to it.
wrong or not , the way i see it it this:
the L is the hardest thing to reduce, and wont be a HUGE amount different between cables, im sure of that.
cable length would be the overriding factor, so i wouldnt be coiling up 10m of cable when i only need 2m, just to save it for a time when i might need the long cables. this would go the same for anyone building an amp SS, valve preamp whatever, there are more reasons besides the fire regs why mains powercables are only 1-2m long...........
the R is the easiest to reduce, just get decent gauge, and non of this steel cored RF cr@p people have been talking about
and again short cables.
and the C is somewhere in the middle of the road, harder to reduce than R, but do-able, and certainly easier than getting any real reduction in L.
so my answer to this:
max 2m wire per speaker.
large gauge as practical to reduce R
'unzip' speaker wires to reduce C
dont coil it up, or use metal cable clamps to fix to the skirting boards....
when i get home ill sim it, unless someone else fancies having a go?
if my cable has an L of 5uH ...so what?
the HF is only going to be attenuated at over 15kHz, if i remember right, and by a decibel at most.
However, i do think that thew combined effects of the LCR values can sometimes create a resonator, which will obviously mar ANY loudspeaker attached to it.
wrong or not , the way i see it it this:
the L is the hardest thing to reduce, and wont be a HUGE amount different between cables, im sure of that.
cable length would be the overriding factor, so i wouldnt be coiling up 10m of cable when i only need 2m, just to save it for a time when i might need the long cables. this would go the same for anyone building an amp SS, valve preamp whatever, there are more reasons besides the fire regs why mains powercables are only 1-2m long...........
the R is the easiest to reduce, just get decent gauge, and non of this steel cored RF cr@p people have been talking about
and again short cables.and the C is somewhere in the middle of the road, harder to reduce than R, but do-able, and certainly easier than getting any real reduction in L.
so my answer to this:
max 2m wire per speaker.
large gauge as practical to reduce R
'unzip' speaker wires to reduce C
dont coil it up, or use metal cable clamps to fix to the skirting boards....
when i get home ill sim it, unless someone else fancies having a go?
If what I said is translated by you as "....and therefore doesn't depend on cable subtleties...." no,I do not agree with you.
A subtle difference is not necessarily lacking in clarity or detail.Quite the oposite I would think.
Jan, i understand what you are talking about. Many musicians that i know do not care much about the equipment that reproduces music so MP3 is the de facto standart and also if the music sounds good in the car. Nevertheless i had musicians from my band in my home and they where totally mesmerised by the sound of the recordigs i made and also the sound of other albums. Most of them simply have no access to good ( i am thinking about really good sound) sound so they are in a not much different position then other music listeners that are not musicians.
They may be rare but i know musicians that play on a professional level, at least in their spare time and can apreciate very good sound. For example John Atkinson (Bass) and Allen Perkins (drums).
They may be rare but i know musicians that play on a professional level, at least in their spare time and can apreciate very good sound. For example John Atkinson (Bass) and Allen Perkins (drums).
This can be true,but it is also true that musicians who appreciate really good sound,are,at the same time able to tell about details even through a not so good system.It would be interresting to ask some musicians what is that they hear through a not so good system that can or cannot be heard and appreciated through a more "accurate" one
i agree. i also know many musicians and have recorded a few of them in my mini home studio(doesnt everyone have one nowadays?) and mp3 does seem to be the norm. i find that, like you, friends are amazed at the sound of some of their recordings and other material also. they understand how to create their 'instrument sound' and i can record it so theyre satisfied the character, timbre, emotion is preserved. a friend was amazed when i showed the audible difference between a mp3 recording, even in 320kbps, and that of his mastered track in wav, at 24 bit. here in terms of intonation and subtlties of amplitude , only a 32 bit or at least 24 bit recording can do justice to the musician. simple fact of life, less bits mean less bit levels to record amplitude.
musicians are a special case, as what matter for them
when listening is the real content : harmonies and melodies..
i prefer a soulful instrumental execution with a mean sound
than a mediocre one in a state of the art audio installation...
what is important is the expressivity, that can be heard in
any sound chain, including mp3 gears...
Does that mean you don't consider near "perfect" LCR as the most important factors to good music reproduction?
panicos, what is the meaning of "LCR" acronym?...
i myself play music, jazz and popular styles..
it s true that even MP3 is enough to hear the
musical result, i have a sound chain for stage
that is way better than the average one sold in
the mass fi market..
what matter the most for me is the balance of
the sound in the instrument register, so the most
important thing are the speakers, as amps, if powerfull
enough, have no trouble reproducing those frequency range
with accurate dynamic...
i myself play music, jazz and popular styles..
it s true that even MP3 is enough to hear the
musical result, i have a sound chain for stage
that is way better than the average one sold in
the mass fi market..
what matter the most for me is the balance of
the sound in the instrument register, so the most
important thing are the speakers, as amps, if powerfull
enough, have no trouble reproducing those frequency range
with accurate dynamic...
That was not my point. My point was that the musical subtleties like "a tiny bow stroke should create sadness and not happiness" does not depend on cable subtleties, but that these musical subtleties can even be percieved with a good kitchen radio or an MP3. Afriend of mine often pointed out such musical subtleties on the car stereo while in traffic.
jd
Technicalities aside,I agree with you.I know of musicians who own good playback systems and others who don't.The truth is that many like to hear the music from the position of the player,that is quite loud,very dynamic and close to them,as they do when they play it.
"...the musical result..."you are refering to,is what most listeners are interrested to have,either from the player's or listener's position.
Isn't your friend's comment subjective?
If he is right(I believe he is),doesn't that show that LCR is not all?That was my point for ages now,but many had always something to say about my(and other's) imagination,systems,cables,tubes......name it and they've said it.I'm surprised.......once again,that you addressed your above post to me
To end with the cable issue,I still believe that even in the car,or MP3,a "better" cable will not go wasted.All in good measure of course,as always
Isn't your friend's comment subjective?
I'm surprised.......once again,that you addressed your above post to me
To end with the cable issue,I still believe that even in the car,or MP3,a "better" cable will not go wasted.All in good measure of course,as always
The point is that audible cable differences may exist, but that there is not necessarily a relation to our enjoyment and/or appreciation and/or understanding of music.
IF audible cable differences exist they may give a different coloration or soundstage or what have you. But in any case I will be able to hear if the bow emanates sadness or joy, thank you very much
jd
The point is that audible cable differences may exist, but that there is not necessarily a relation to our enjoyment and/or appreciation and/or understanding of music.
IF audible cable differences exist they may give a different coloration or soundstage or what have you. But in any case I will be able to hear if the bow emanates sadness or joy, thank you very much
jd
As long as we agree that LCR is not everything in music reproduction,I have no problem whatsoever to agree with you on anything
If however cable differences exist,then there is always the possibility to hear better/worse what the bow can do,by using different cables."Sad or pleasant" bow sound or whatever,is eventually a recorded information,and therefore subject to a playback system's ability to reveal it or not,in a way we either like or not.
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As long as we agree that LCR is not everything in music reproduction,I have no problem whatsoever to agree with you on anything
If however cable differences exist,then there is always the possibility to hear better/worse what the bow can do,by using different cables."Sad or pleasant" bow sound or whatever,is eventually a recorded information,and therefore subject to a playback system's ability to reveal it or not,in a way we either like or not.
Yes, true, but we are so cunning to pick up emotions and inflexions and moods that it would take a really pathological system to miss it. We routinely pick up people's mood and emotion though a telephone.
So, any reasonable mid-fi system is good enough to pick up these musical emotions. Anything above that is icing on the cake
BTW Don't get hang up on LCR...
jd
Yes, true, but we are so cunning to pick up emotions and inflexions and moods that it would take a really pathological system to miss it. We routinely pick up people's mood and emotion though a telephone.
So, any reasonable mid-fi system is good enough to pick up these musical emotions. Anything above that is icing on the cake
BTW Don't get hang up on LCR...
jd
You know-I hope-I don't hang up on anything.I'm just enjoying music as you and others do.My cables may cost more than yours,but your digital source most probably costs more than mine
When I use mine for audio the BW is 100K. Cleans things I don't care about.
Did a job where the electricians putting in the cable were a bit surprised when I pointed to a spot in the cable tray and told them to smooth out knots and not try to pull through it. Didn't have problems after that.
But the question is not can you measure it but can you hear it?
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