fredex said:Panicos K. Hi, I don't choose my cables by listening to them.
How did you choose them?Not even comparing out of curiosity?
Just to see if your system "prefers" one over the other?
Sorry for editing often,but I have to adopt everything I want to say in English as correctly as possible.
Panicos K said:How did you chose them?Not even comparing out of curiosity?
Basically on price/quality ie anything second hand that is used in good industrial equipment, military stuff is usually the best. Speaker cable is all about the amount of copper I can afford. Flexiblity can be a factor too, who wants ICs that can lift your preamp off the shelf?
Now my artistic side is attracted to cables that make a statement so I may choose a cable on looks alone. Good looking cables are cool but I wouldn't pay audiophile prices just to look cool. I am a cheapskate with good sound and loving it
EDIT your english is good!
fredex said:
Basically on price/quality ie anything second hand that is used in good industrial equipment, military stuff is usually the best. Speaker cable is all about the amount of copper I can afford. Flexiblity can be a factor too, who wants ICs that can lift your preamp off the shelf?
Now my artistic side is attracted to cables that make a statement so I may choose a cable on looks alone. Good looking cables are cool but I wouldn't pay audiophile prices just to look cool. I am a cheapskate with good sound and loving it
EDIT your english is good!
Yes,hunting smart second hand is a hobby I like very much myself too although mostly on turntables/arms and certain tube amps.
The "artistic" point is also the trap point.Try to avoid it.Even I do
fredex said:
True but why worry...............think of the money you will save, you can now buy more music.
So, "all in good measure" seeems to serve us all.As I said in a previous post,you have to believe that selling any cable to a true audiophile is not an easy thing,believe me
"Audiofools" is another story.Besides,many true audiophiles may tell you where and by whom many "high-end" cables are made.
But I guess you may know already too.
Hi Andre, Yes good idea, I am attracted to some very flexible ones that have silicon (I think) insulation. Being for low voltage the insulation is thin so you get max copper without the bulk. Being so flexible they can neatly follow the skirting. With these 'sparks should fly' like the highs should sparkle and the center image should be welded smack in the middle..... if you can get my audiophile drift.Andre Visser said:Fredex, then you must try welder cables, quite cheap as well.
fredex said:With these 'sparks should fly' like the highs should sparkle and the center image should be welded smack in the middle..... if you can get my audiophile drift.
I will make a prediction, you should have nice bass, little detail in the mids and very poor HF. That promise to give you no center image to talk about.
Now I've spoiled your fun, it can never sound good after I've told you what to expect.
fredex said:
Basically on price/quality ie anything second hand that is used in good industrial equipment, military stuff is usually the best. Speaker cable is all about the amount of copper I can afford. Flexiblity can be a factor too, who wants ICs that can lift your preamp off the shelf?
Now my artistic side is attracted to cables that make a statement so I may choose a cable on looks alone. Good looking cables are cool but I wouldn't pay audiophile prices just to look cool. I am a cheapskate with good sound and loving it
EDIT your english is good!
Hi,
Maybe you should look at what the requirements for military equipment are before you make up your mind.
Besides that, no amount of copper is going to turn a mediocre system into a good one.
Consciously or not....
From reading your posts it seems to me that although you've textually positioned yourself on the 'other" side of the fence you're a good candidate for being labeled as a gullible audiophile.
No offense,
Originally posted by fdegrove ..................From reading your posts it seems to me that although you've textually positioned yourself on the 'other" side of the fence you're a good candidate for being labeled as a gullible audiophile.
No offense,
No offence taken, but why do you think that ?
Boy you guys are fast here... so many posts so little time...
I was reminiscing with a friend and colleague of mine - we are both in our 50's - about audio. We are in the business - audio measurement - but I mentioned the post I made here on the same day as joining this forum. Our conversation covered various points (I took notes!)
Point 1: Before about 1980 NOBODY cared about cables...
Point 2: We both believed that was about the time Monster Cables came out as a high profit business brand for audio retailers
Point 3: By the time CD's came out in mass, interconnects from all kinds of manufacturers were coming out.
Point 4: Some audio reviewer (we both can't remember the name, though we agree he was British and a Linn LP-12 fanatic) expounded the theory that EVERY component associated with a hi-fi product effects the sound of that product AND likely effects the sound of the associated equipment around it.
Point 5: That and most of the professional audio world and the real measurement world still pretty much ignore the two points mentioned earlier: (1) That there is a system synergy beyond general noise and gain levels and (2) the sound of interconnects power cords and digital connections (Wired or optical) are worthy of consideration or cost.
Point 6: Richard Heyser seemed to understand this completely and tried several times in writing to explain why human perception is so perverted from the science and engineering of audio engineering.
Terribly paraphrased he said (I believe in an AES article was
Multidimensional Audio) "In the human perception of audio reproduction, our brains try to imagine a performance that may or may not of taken place that contains the dimensions of pitch and pace, depth and dynamics, ambiance and position from two voltage signals that are somewhat correlated to each other, convolved in time and frequency by the network and transducers that make up the loudspeakers. This acoustic signal is once again convolved by by the impulse response of the listening room - not one room or listener the same."
He concluded that it is not unreasonable that without controlled conditions that the perception of audible differences in any component was probable and justified.
I was reminiscing with a friend and colleague of mine - we are both in our 50's - about audio. We are in the business - audio measurement - but I mentioned the post I made here on the same day as joining this forum. Our conversation covered various points (I took notes!)
Point 1: Before about 1980 NOBODY cared about cables...
Point 2: We both believed that was about the time Monster Cables came out as a high profit business brand for audio retailers
Point 3: By the time CD's came out in mass, interconnects from all kinds of manufacturers were coming out.
Point 4: Some audio reviewer (we both can't remember the name, though we agree he was British and a Linn LP-12 fanatic) expounded the theory that EVERY component associated with a hi-fi product effects the sound of that product AND likely effects the sound of the associated equipment around it.
Point 5: That and most of the professional audio world and the real measurement world still pretty much ignore the two points mentioned earlier: (1) That there is a system synergy beyond general noise and gain levels and (2) the sound of interconnects power cords and digital connections (Wired or optical) are worthy of consideration or cost.
Point 6: Richard Heyser seemed to understand this completely and tried several times in writing to explain why human perception is so perverted from the science and engineering of audio engineering.
Terribly paraphrased he said (I believe in an AES article was
Multidimensional Audio) "In the human perception of audio reproduction, our brains try to imagine a performance that may or may not of taken place that contains the dimensions of pitch and pace, depth and dynamics, ambiance and position from two voltage signals that are somewhat correlated to each other, convolved in time and frequency by the network and transducers that make up the loudspeakers. This acoustic signal is once again convolved by by the impulse response of the listening room - not one room or listener the same."
He concluded that it is not unreasonable that without controlled conditions that the perception of audible differences in any component was probable and justified.
I missed the part where I mentioned anything about direction or non-universality of conscious and unconscious biases. ALL humans have it, you, me, anyone. That's why, even if I don't hear the difference between cable A and cable B, I'm happy to accept the results of properly controlled tests by others that indicate audibility.
It's just that there aren't any yet, merely unsupported claims and (worse yet) claims of controlled testing by people who wouldn't know what a controlled test was if it bit 'em on the buttocks.
gymwear5 said:
Not quite true on point 1 and 3
I made my own cables before that time
And I was making my own interconnects long before any CD was born
Silver RCA connectors and all, litzwires fore tonearms
And when making amps I surely thought about which wires to use
And in the bigger towns others were doing it too
Someone here seems to think like audio is a new thing
But I can tell you, there were some very intelligent people back then, enthusiasts who knew a lot about high quality audio
I would say that only the last few years are up to level back then
Several of todays well reputed people started their carriers long before 1980
Actually I dont think much was happening around and after 1980, other than massproduction of scrap, low-fi, which started a long and dead period in audio
Only this last few years things seems to be happening again, with exciting devellopments, probably thanks to internet
Though much of it is in reality a revival of old stuff...stuff like wire with cotton sleeve, paper in oil caps, and so on
Andre Visser said:I will make a prediction, you should have nice bass, little detail in the mids and very poor HF. That promise to give you no center image to talk about.
Now I've spoiled your fun, it can never sound good after I've told you what to expect.
Well although I said I was attracted to these cables I probably won't buy them as I don't want to over do it.
You see I used to have huge (for my room) Altec A7 speakers, they looked so amazing that people thought these must be the best speakers in the world or why else would he have these ugly things in his lounge. It was sometimes hard to satisfy their imaginations. So I may stick to my cheap but effective automotive cables, better to be a cheapskate realist than an obsessive spendthrift I think.
Please don't say anything bad about automotive cable as I am enjoying the sound of them.
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