Hi all!
Would it be possible to build with one SMPS, and four UCD180? My two back channels doesn't need much power because they are very small. What capacitors would i have to add? Anything else? Someone said it was possible 🙂
One more thing, if i want a volume control, what components do i have to get? One pot for each channel or some sort of multichannel volume control doesn't matter. I'll go for the cheapest as long as it doesn't decrease audio quality.
Sorry for these newbie questions, but i'm learning. Gotta start somewhere. If some kind soul out there would care to answer these questions i would be more than happy.
If i manage to pull this off maybe i can inspire others to DIY.
Would it be possible to build with one SMPS, and four UCD180? My two back channels doesn't need much power because they are very small. What capacitors would i have to add? Anything else? Someone said it was possible 🙂
One more thing, if i want a volume control, what components do i have to get? One pot for each channel or some sort of multichannel volume control doesn't matter. I'll go for the cheapest as long as it doesn't decrease audio quality.
Sorry for these newbie questions, but i'm learning. Gotta start somewhere. If some kind soul out there would care to answer these questions i would be more than happy.
If i manage to pull this off maybe i can inspire others to DIY.
Thank you both for the answer.
sek's answer is perfectly clear, but I have some problem understading the one by luka.
Are you saying that, since a single SMPS180 could be not enough to power up a couple of amp modules (even if someone commented it should have no problem running a couple of UcD180), an additional Power Supply HG (stereo, or two mono) would give me addictional capacitance to provide an higher amount of power to the amp modules when needed?
sek's answer is perfectly clear, but I have some problem understading the one by luka.
Are you saying that, since a single SMPS180 could be not enough to power up a couple of amp modules (even if someone commented it should have no problem running a couple of UcD180), an additional Power Supply HG (stereo, or two mono) would give me addictional capacitance to provide an higher amount of power to the amp modules when needed?
Hi,
Yes, it is possible. It solely depends on your power requirements. As long as a power supply is capable of safely delivering the idle power of the connected amplifier, you could power up even the strongest amp with a weak supply.
The question is just whether it will still work under load.
Take a look at the SMPS180's datasheet. How much current does it deliver? On average, as a maximum, on peaks short before safety shutdown?
Then take a look at your amplifier module(s) and look at their idle consumption, average current draw for your application, and finally the maximum load you would have to expect. It helps to have your speakers' impedance, the amplifiers efficiency and your speakers efficiency handy. Those are usually either in the datasheet (UcD180) or in the forums. 😉
The rest is simple arithmetic.
This is a largely underestimated topic. A multichannel volume control is a DIY project of it's own. You can find topics about different approaches here on diyaudio.com.
OTOH, for a multichannel application, your receiver/decoder might have a digital volume control built in. What source and rears decoder do you use?
Cheers,
Sebastian.
kusling said:
Yes, it is possible. It solely depends on your power requirements. As long as a power supply is capable of safely delivering the idle power of the connected amplifier, you could power up even the strongest amp with a weak supply.
The question is just whether it will still work under load.
Take a look at the SMPS180's datasheet. How much current does it deliver? On average, as a maximum, on peaks short before safety shutdown?
Then take a look at your amplifier module(s) and look at their idle consumption, average current draw for your application, and finally the maximum load you would have to expect. It helps to have your speakers' impedance, the amplifiers efficiency and your speakers efficiency handy. Those are usually either in the datasheet (UcD180) or in the forums. 😉
The rest is simple arithmetic.
This is a largely underestimated topic. A multichannel volume control is a DIY project of it's own. You can find topics about different approaches here on diyaudio.com.
OTOH, for a multichannel application, your receiver/decoder might have a digital volume control built in. What source and rears decoder do you use?
Cheers,
Sebastian.
Hi,
Luka is right in that you can connect a capacitor bank inbetween SMPS and UcDs. This could help beefing up the current capabilities of the SMPS, as the amplifiers don't draw constant power, but instantaneous currents. The capacitors can then help smoothing the supply voltage in situations of peak current demand.
OTOH, Luka also said that he believes one SMPS180 to be too weak for more than one UcD180. That's a matter of opinion and depends on your preferences and your power demand. As I had written in the above post, you can easily estimate your match between SMPS and UcDs according to their specifications (and that of your speakers).
Personally I would draw the line at two UcD per SMPS (with a capacitor bank inbetween) for low to medium power requirements and one UcD per SMPS (with or without additional capacitors) for medium to high power requirements.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
Lagoon said:
Luka is right in that you can connect a capacitor bank inbetween SMPS and UcDs. This could help beefing up the current capabilities of the SMPS, as the amplifiers don't draw constant power, but instantaneous currents. The capacitors can then help smoothing the supply voltage in situations of peak current demand.
OTOH, Luka also said that he believes one SMPS180 to be too weak for more than one UcD180. That's a matter of opinion and depends on your preferences and your power demand. As I had written in the above post, you can easily estimate your match between SMPS and UcDs according to their specifications (and that of your speakers).
Personally I would draw the line at two UcD per SMPS (with a capacitor bank inbetween) for low to medium power requirements and one UcD per SMPS (with or without additional capacitors) for medium to high power requirements.
Cheers,
Sebastian.
sek, thanks for your answer!
I don't think i'm gonna need that much power because my main speakers are pretty easy as load, and my rear are very small and very easy aswell.
I intend to use a HTPC as source, with Windows as volume control. Thing is, i don't trust windows and would like to have a volume control on my amp as a safety barrier. I'm not gonna touch the amp volume much as i intend to use windows, but i need it so no stupid program maximizes windows volume and kills my speakers. I think 4 separate pots would be fine for me. It would give me some flexibility aswell as safety.
but thanks again for your answer, i'm gonna investigate this a bit now and then i'll hopefully write something here how it went 🙂
I don't think i'm gonna need that much power because my main speakers are pretty easy as load, and my rear are very small and very easy aswell.
I intend to use a HTPC as source, with Windows as volume control. Thing is, i don't trust windows and would like to have a volume control on my amp as a safety barrier. I'm not gonna touch the amp volume much as i intend to use windows, but i need it so no stupid program maximizes windows volume and kills my speakers. I think 4 separate pots would be fine for me. It would give me some flexibility aswell as safety.
but thanks again for your answer, i'm gonna investigate this a bit now and then i'll hopefully write something here how it went 🙂
sek said:
Thank you sek 🙂
Now I have a clear view of the benefits of additional caps
When you say in the above quote "capacitor bank", would an Hypex Supply module be suited for that use? Or should I just connect a couple capacitors? My understanding is that Hypex Supplies aren't just a bunch of capacitors, but they have a more complex circuit, is it right? Would that design be the best solution as a module in between Hypex SMPS and Hypex UcD amp? Or should I (if additional capacitance is required for my application) custom design the addition of caps (I suppose in parallel to the power line coming from the SMPS)?
I ask this question just to understand how these modules are designed, of course later I'll make my math to udnerstand if I need additional caps in between the SMPS and the amps.
Sorry for the many questions, I'm just trying to understand how this stuff works since I'm a (just graduated) electronic engineer and I'd like to increase my knowledge in the subject 🙂
You're welcome! 😉
Yep, I see. I'm currently trusting a Behringer DCX2496 in that regard, and I don't feel too good with that one either. It managed to crash twice as of yet...
Cool, I recommend two dual-gang (stereo) pots of considerable quality (i.e. not the cheapest), on for the front pair and one for the rear pair. Car radio volume potentiometers come to mind...
Cheers,
Sebastian.
🙂
Let's take a look at the Supply ST, just as an example.
It features a bridge rectifier at it's input, a component that is neither required, nor recommended at the output of a SMPS.
It then has the capacitors. Those are a good thing. 😉
Finally, there's a relais-based DC protection circuit, something you may or may not want or need in your application.
The Supply HG adds fuses, better auxiliary supply regulation, and a fancy LED connector. 🙂
In case you have such a Hypex supply laying around, it of course makes for a cool add-on to your SMPS. Explicitly buying one is not neccessary, though.
All in all, it's way cheaper to custom design a capacitor bank, but probably cooler to use a Hypex made one. You'd just have to modify the input rectifier part and void your warranty. 😀
Oh, and the DC protection can also be built or bought separately...
Cheers,
Sebastian.
I've read the data sheet of the SMPS180 and have a couple of questions.
1. I know Hypex would recommend one to one SMPS to UcD180 connections, but what is the realistic number of UcD180 modules that can be powered from one SMPS?
2. Can one SMPS power a UcD400 and UcD180 simultaneously? And since it would be the same voltage going to both I would "assume" there would be no benefit to the UcD400. Correct?
1. I know Hypex would recommend one to one SMPS to UcD180 connections, but what is the realistic number of UcD180 modules that can be powered from one SMPS?
2. Can one SMPS power a UcD400 and UcD180 simultaneously? And since it would be the same voltage going to both I would "assume" there would be no benefit to the UcD400. Correct?
Hi,
Simply said, it can spit out 6,5 amps of average current. That means you can safely hook up 2 UcD’s for 8 ohm speakers and one for 4 ohm speakers to get full power out of each module.
You can hook up more modules to a SMPS180 at less power for each module. But the SMPS180 has only 2 inputs for DC protection of the amps. So if you want to hook up more than 2, you have to provide DC protection for the extra modules yourself (if you want to take advantage of the provided DC protection).
😉
Simply said, it can spit out 6,5 amps of average current. That means you can safely hook up 2 UcD’s for 8 ohm speakers and one for 4 ohm speakers to get full power out of each module.
You can hook up more modules to a SMPS180 at less power for each module. But the SMPS180 has only 2 inputs for DC protection of the amps. So if you want to hook up more than 2, you have to provide DC protection for the extra modules yourself (if you want to take advantage of the provided DC protection).
😉
Has anyone had a chance to compare ...
the resulting sound with the SMPS versus a traditional power supply with the UCD modules?
I want to use this supply with gainclones that are powered currently with batteries.
Not that I am asking what they would sound like with gainclones, just thought I would throw that in.
Curious to hear what compromises are involved.
Thanks,
the resulting sound with the SMPS versus a traditional power supply with the UCD modules?
I want to use this supply with gainclones that are powered currently with batteries.
Not that I am asking what they would sound like with gainclones, just thought I would throw that in.
Curious to hear what compromises are involved.
Thanks,
Member
Joined 2003
When hooking an SMPS180 to a LM3886, be sure to set the output voltage before hooking it to the circuit. The SMPS180 has a max output voltage of 45V per rail (adjustable down to 35V), and the LM3886 can accept a max rail voltage of 42V.
If you would like some info on using SMPS with an LM3886, check Nuuk's site.
If you would like some info on using SMPS with an LM3886, check Nuuk's site.
I myself am very interested in geting a smps for my 180HGs. I have two. Does this mean in order to get full output i would need two supplys? I strongly believe Hypex are the way forward 😀
Read back this thread, there are some answers 😉
The 180 HG can deliver 180 watts in 4 ohm but no more than 90 watts in 8 ohm (it is limited bij the max output voltage the 180HG can deliver)..
I myself are working on 2 mono blocks with UcD180-HG with a SMPS180 for each. But I have not much free time so that will take a while.
Cheers 😉
The 180 HG can deliver 180 watts in 4 ohm but no more than 90 watts in 8 ohm (it is limited bij the max output voltage the 180HG can deliver)..
I myself are working on 2 mono blocks with UcD180-HG with a SMPS180 for each. But I have not much free time so that will take a while.
Cheers 😉
Member
Joined 2003
I may be a little late to jump on the UcD train, but I think I'm one of the first to build a UcD amp using the SMPS180.
I have now completed an amp using two modified UcD180ST modules, and a SMPS180 supply. The UcD modules have the following modifications:
-replaced the large 470uF caps with 63V UCC LXZ caps. The LXZ caps have the same specs as a Panasonic FC, but longer life.
-replaced input op-amp with LM4562
-bypassed on-board electrolytic AC coupling caps
-added off-board 2.2uF EPCOS polypropylene AC coupling caps
-added power supply bypass as close to the power pins of the LM4562 as possible
-replaced 680nF output filter cap with a good EPCOS high pulse strength MKT
The only thing I did with the SMPS was add an extra 4700uF per rail, Panasonic TS-HA series.
The amp isn't pretty, it was installed in a chassis that was previously used for another project, so everything isn't in it's optimal location. It does work, and it does sound just lovely. I'll post a photo when I get home from work later today.
One thing to note is that I have a UcD module only 12mm from the modulator on the SMPS and the noise floor is still extremely low. There may be some concern with 95+dB/1W/1m sensitive speakers, but with average sensitivity hi-fi speakers it's perfectly happy.
All I have to compare with this amp is my Mauro Penasa My_Ref amp which is an unusual design based around an LM3886. The improvement the UcD made over the Mauro amp is astounding. The Mauro amp may have a bit of an edge in the bass, but that's about it. Describing sound is a bit of a lost cause IMO, so all I will say is that I feel the UcD sounds like there is more "fidelity".
Stay tuned for a photo of my ugly but not so ugly sounding amp later today. 😉
I have now completed an amp using two modified UcD180ST modules, and a SMPS180 supply. The UcD modules have the following modifications:
-replaced the large 470uF caps with 63V UCC LXZ caps. The LXZ caps have the same specs as a Panasonic FC, but longer life.
-replaced input op-amp with LM4562
-bypassed on-board electrolytic AC coupling caps
-added off-board 2.2uF EPCOS polypropylene AC coupling caps
-added power supply bypass as close to the power pins of the LM4562 as possible
-replaced 680nF output filter cap with a good EPCOS high pulse strength MKT
The only thing I did with the SMPS was add an extra 4700uF per rail, Panasonic TS-HA series.
The amp isn't pretty, it was installed in a chassis that was previously used for another project, so everything isn't in it's optimal location. It does work, and it does sound just lovely. I'll post a photo when I get home from work later today.
One thing to note is that I have a UcD module only 12mm from the modulator on the SMPS and the noise floor is still extremely low. There may be some concern with 95+dB/1W/1m sensitive speakers, but with average sensitivity hi-fi speakers it's perfectly happy.
All I have to compare with this amp is my Mauro Penasa My_Ref amp which is an unusual design based around an LM3886. The improvement the UcD made over the Mauro amp is astounding. The Mauro amp may have a bit of an edge in the bass, but that's about it. Describing sound is a bit of a lost cause IMO, so all I will say is that I feel the UcD sounds like there is more "fidelity".
Stay tuned for a photo of my ugly but not so ugly sounding amp later today. 😉
Hello,
What do you think of this smps?
http://www.redrocksaudio.es/files/SMPS6060PFC.pdf
The price is faire (around 150€) and they can provide it with +/- 45 v output.
I am wondering if it could be a decent solution for a multi channel ucd 180-based Amp.
Regards
Anthony
What do you think of this smps?
http://www.redrocksaudio.es/files/SMPS6060PFC.pdf
The price is faire (around 150€) and they can provide it with +/- 45 v output.
I am wondering if it could be a decent solution for a multi channel ucd 180-based Amp.
Regards
Anthony
Member
Joined 2003
Photos, as promised:
IMAGE: Front View
IMAGE: Rear View
IMAGE: Innards, from the front
IMAGE: Innards, from the back
IMAGE: Front View
IMAGE: Rear View
IMAGE: Innards, from the front
IMAGE: Innards, from the back
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