N-Core Review
I received a parcel with four NCore modules and two power supplies. I could not wait a single day to try them ;-)
I compared them in my friends recording studio with his own high resolution recordings. We know the recordings and the reproduction system very well, so a quick comparison was not so hard. We used Auralic DAC, fed by the mixing console, symmetrically connected to the NCores.
My reference amplifier is a EL519 tube push pull model. I compared this machine to lots of commercial and DIY amplifier, MOSFET Class A, Gainclones, some old Hypex modules, Class AB solid state.
The Ncore blew my reference amplifier in every aspect. More definition in each frequency range. Deeper Bass, clearer highs, wider soundstage. Most apparent is a very pronounced articulation of small dynamic and rythmic changes in classical music. I have never felt those so clear with reproduced music. The ncore manages to play those small dynamic explosions with a great intensity.
My own speaker is active, so I need more time to tweak the active filter. Before six years I tried some UCD modules and was really disappointed with the result. The NCore is a technological break through, really a game changer for the HiFi industry.
I received a parcel with four NCore modules and two power supplies. I could not wait a single day to try them ;-)
I compared them in my friends recording studio with his own high resolution recordings. We know the recordings and the reproduction system very well, so a quick comparison was not so hard. We used Auralic DAC, fed by the mixing console, symmetrically connected to the NCores.
My reference amplifier is a EL519 tube push pull model. I compared this machine to lots of commercial and DIY amplifier, MOSFET Class A, Gainclones, some old Hypex modules, Class AB solid state.
The Ncore blew my reference amplifier in every aspect. More definition in each frequency range. Deeper Bass, clearer highs, wider soundstage. Most apparent is a very pronounced articulation of small dynamic and rythmic changes in classical music. I have never felt those so clear with reproduced music. The ncore manages to play those small dynamic explosions with a great intensity.
My own speaker is active, so I need more time to tweak the active filter. Before six years I tried some UCD modules and was really disappointed with the result. The NCore is a technological break through, really a game changer for the HiFi industry.
NCore observations
Two modules with a two switching PSU did sound noticeably better than with a single power supply for both. Music was more free, clearer soundstage.
Volume control with potentiometer was really bad, digital volume control was good. We could easily recognize blind the kind of volume control. This difference was bigger than comparing the same recording in 24 bit 48 kHz and redbook quality.
PGA2311 volume control was equally good to digital or perhaps a small margin behind.
Two modules with a two switching PSU did sound noticeably better than with a single power supply for both. Music was more free, clearer soundstage.
Volume control with potentiometer was really bad, digital volume control was good. We could easily recognize blind the kind of volume control. This difference was bigger than comparing the same recording in 24 bit 48 kHz and redbook quality.
PGA2311 volume control was equally good to digital or perhaps a small margin behind.
Question for Bruno
Hello Bruno,
Thank you for a great engineering achievement!
Please help me with changing the gain of a NCore module. I use four of them for a bi amplified system with symmetrical first order line filter before the ncore modules. I paralleled a resistor to R141 and the gain does not change. I tried values from 7k5 to 1k, but the gain always remains the same. Do you have any idea?
Does changing the value of R141 affect the input impedance?
I have a suggestion for a new feature. It would be great to have a signal sensing auto power on/off feature. For building active speaker this would be great. It is just a comparator and integrator, so not a big deal.
When a music signal appears on the input the module gives nAMPON a low signal. With no music for some minutes, the PSU is switched off again.
Is there any chance to see this implemented in a future revision or as external module?
Kind Regards,
Peter
Hello Bruno,
Thank you for a great engineering achievement!
Please help me with changing the gain of a NCore module. I use four of them for a bi amplified system with symmetrical first order line filter before the ncore modules. I paralleled a resistor to R141 and the gain does not change. I tried values from 7k5 to 1k, but the gain always remains the same. Do you have any idea?
Does changing the value of R141 affect the input impedance?
I have a suggestion for a new feature. It would be great to have a signal sensing auto power on/off feature. For building active speaker this would be great. It is just a comparator and integrator, so not a big deal.
When a music signal appears on the input the module gives nAMPON a low signal. With no music for some minutes, the PSU is switched off again.
Is there any chance to see this implemented in a future revision or as external module?
Kind Regards,
Peter
Really, so a dedicated SMPS600 per NC400 sounded better than one per two. Can you elaborate? What type of speakers are you using?
yes. A dedicated PSU did sound better by not a small margin. perceived difference was like more spatial separation between instruments and more pronounced micro dynamics.
Passive 3 way speaker with beyma chassis.
R141: I can only surmise that either you're taking the wrong resistor for R141 or somehow the parallel resistor isn't making contact. It has to work...
There's no impact on input impedance.
Re 1 vs 2 supplies: can you make a picture of your set-up? More precisely the input wiring. Connecting 2 modules on 1 supply creates a ground loop which should be shorted out somewhere between the amp and the source. The most obvious place to do so of course is at the XLR's (by way of connecting the cable shield directly to the connector shell and shorting the connector shells together via the chassis). If the ground loop is allowed to force current into your source equipment you risk getting some fairly serious intermodulation between both channels. This means if someone wants to try 2 vs 1 supply without a chassis he'll at least have to bolt the input connectors together.
I don't think I'll be adding input sensing to the amplifier anytime soon but as an external module it makes sense. Especially since people are also asking for a pushbutton switch. For safety that requires a standby supply but I felt loath to sell a standby supply just to replace a mains switch. But if at the same time it can power a signal sense circuit that could make sense. One thing I'm not sure of is whether people will like the idea that the first 2 seconds of their music is lost while the SMPS and power amp turn on.
There's no impact on input impedance.
Re 1 vs 2 supplies: can you make a picture of your set-up? More precisely the input wiring. Connecting 2 modules on 1 supply creates a ground loop which should be shorted out somewhere between the amp and the source. The most obvious place to do so of course is at the XLR's (by way of connecting the cable shield directly to the connector shell and shorting the connector shells together via the chassis). If the ground loop is allowed to force current into your source equipment you risk getting some fairly serious intermodulation between both channels. This means if someone wants to try 2 vs 1 supply without a chassis he'll at least have to bolt the input connectors together.
I don't think I'll be adding input sensing to the amplifier anytime soon but as an external module it makes sense. Especially since people are also asking for a pushbutton switch. For safety that requires a standby supply but I felt loath to sell a standby supply just to replace a mains switch. But if at the same time it can power a signal sense circuit that could make sense. One thing I'm not sure of is whether people will like the idea that the first 2 seconds of their music is lost while the SMPS and power amp turn on.
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A trigger function would be nice.
Not sure about auto-sense. I'd personally have no problem with the 2-second thing and actually, in that case (pun intended
), I don't think I'd be installing a power switch at all.If the you're-idle-so-switch-off-dear-SMPS delay is long enough, it won't be triggered during any normal listening session (unless it takes you 15 minutes to pick the next track - oh, no, I forgot about the vinyl crowd! ;p).
Anyway, people could choose not to use this function and/or override it by using the pushbutton switch before pressing Play.
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I don't cease to be amazed by the number of features people can't live without. I don't think it'll be long until someone requests bluetooth capability
if I'm not lazy and complete the "design" (if a few cutouts and a logo engraving can be called that) today I think I'll take the plunge and order the case and 2 separate supplies (not Hypex though).
if I'm not lazy and complete the "design" (if a few cutouts and a logo engraving can be called that) today I think I'll take the plunge and order the case and 2 separate supplies (not Hypex though).
I don't cease to be amazed by the number of features people can't live without. I don't think it'll be long until someone requests bluetooth capability
Everything is better with bluetooth!
Everything is better with Bluetooth | The Big Bang Theory - YouTube
On a more serious note, no one mentioned "people can't live without" the functionality under discussion. They're merely some nice features to have, IMO.
It seems these will be part of an add-on product, so you won't have to pay for it if you don't want to.
Moreover, if you see another DIY NCore integrating this functionality and change your mind (i.e. get that tickle sensation often associated with envy), you'll be able to add it later.
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When you order a supply from elsewhere, make sure:
1) that it's capable of dealing with rail pumping (i.e. that it's made to power a half-bridge class D amp)
2) that it's got outputs for the op amp stages
3) that it's from a supplier who can be bothered to verify EMC. The sound quality of some sources or preamps is fairly sensitive to conducted EMI.
1) that it's capable of dealing with rail pumping (i.e. that it's made to power a half-bridge class D amp)
2) that it's got outputs for the op amp stages
3) that it's from a supplier who can be bothered to verify EMC. The sound quality of some sources or preamps is fairly sensitive to conducted EMI.
Same here!
Interesting that you found the bass to be much better than UcD400, just like I did myself. I think the difference in bass quality is just as big as the rest of the frequency range.
I've a feeling the room (response and decay) and the quality of bass sections is what decides here if one can hear a difference or not. Dipoles also often seem to give a cleaner bass, but that's simply a subjective experience.
thanks, I have considered all the above issues and reportedly they should be ok.
Pieter, I don't think anyone wants you to leave, it's only that maybe you should turn the volume down on the perceived "just post that negative review already" attitude. I don't think it's only me that has the perception that you're begging for that. also, about the "I'm here to slap you back to reality" thing you wrote, I don't know, most people don't need/want to be "saved".
a number of reviews have been posted, I think it's enough for anyone to get a rough idea. beyond a certain point there's not much reviews can add. if you still have the feeling that the NCORE isn't for you, then so be it.
Thanks Calin, but Bruno prefers silence (this is a commercial thread anyway now), so I decided to leave the shepherd and his herd in piece....
I don't think that Bruno wants you to leave, maybe he just decided that any further discussion on the subjective side of things is counterproductive since these tend to turn into "I don't / you do too" types of arguments.
as for the shepherd/herd thing, I think that applies better to other discussions I've seen here at diyaudio. anyway let's put this to rest, it's your decision whether you stay or leave.
as for the shepherd/herd thing, I think that applies better to other discussions I've seen here at diyaudio. anyway let's put this to rest, it's your decision whether you stay or leave.
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