No reason not to use a different 18" . Just that this is useful data. IT seems that the Eminence/Hammer specs can be trusted.
Looks like the box is about 3' tall so with a second woofer it would be about 5' -that's a big speaker!! But if he makes it with one woofer I suspect he will be more than satisfied- those pro woofers put out a LOT of sound! I'm liking that tweeter more ..
Looks like the box is about 3' tall so with a second woofer it would be about 5' -that's a big speaker!! But if he makes it with one woofer I suspect he will be more than satisfied- those pro woofers put out a LOT of sound! I'm liking that tweeter more ..
I am completely speachless....dont know what to say....I think I better keep still....nah!....had this "blue wonder" been there from the start....it would have been the one to beat....a challenge maybe....I think I better hold my breath...
BTW....is Punk playing in a band....didnt know that....could be important ?
BTW....is Punk playing in a band....didnt know that....could be important ?
No he isn't - I just made that up. I have a lot of confidence in the boy!! 😎
BUT, its like having a pickup truck-then all your friends want you to help them move. Once people know he has those speakers, they will want to borrow them for parties and bands! Honestly, if he is really only using them at home the Magna is still a good choice.
BUT, its like having a pickup truck-then all your friends want you to help them move. Once people know he has those speakers, they will want to borrow them for parties and bands! Honestly, if he is really only using them at home the Magna is still a good choice.
Would it be a good idea to tune the first woofer box a bit higher? ie a slightly smaller box volume than he recommends (actually he say that it might be a good idea in the text) Then make the second woofer box a bit bigger or exactly as in the plans. (but keep the same crossovers for both)
Thats odd....in my calculations it need 300liter to get down to 30hz...as he claim it to do with a lot less volume....I think those are standard DJ boxes, right ?.....but like I have said before....that 18" is not supposed to be tuned that low....but you know my preference, and not to every ones liking....I think its best to wait for Punk....but he may have a headacke now....the fun is ower....but if Punk order them, he should present himself as Punk.....he may get a BIG discount....they may even read this too....sneaky,sneaky😉
I would think that it is NOT a good idea to have two woofers playing in the same range and tuned differently. The tuning affects the phase of the woofer, and I suspect you would run into problems like that.
The Blues look like they would have enormous huevos. I've used an 8" pro driver before, and with a highpass they'll go to extreme volumes. I might have chosen a pair of 15" woofers instead of an 18", but this is cheaper and should be plenty loud.
If you tuned these in the high 40s and ran a few horn subs with an active crossover around 80 hz, you could have a professional PA that would even be useful for amplifying a full drum kit.
Ultimately, I think the Blue will go a lot louder than the Magna. The 8" pro midwoofer will have higher power handling and higher sensitivity than the 6.5" used in the Magna. It's the difference between a good party speaker and a decent (small venue) concert rig.
The Blues look like they would have enormous huevos. I've used an 8" pro driver before, and with a highpass they'll go to extreme volumes. I might have chosen a pair of 15" woofers instead of an 18", but this is cheaper and should be plenty loud.
If you tuned these in the high 40s and ran a few horn subs with an active crossover around 80 hz, you could have a professional PA that would even be useful for amplifying a full drum kit.
Ultimately, I think the Blue will go a lot louder than the Magna. The 8" pro midwoofer will have higher power handling and higher sensitivity than the 6.5" used in the Magna. It's the difference between a good party speaker and a decent (small venue) concert rig.
havent read this....but might be interesting reading, now we know Punks dad being experienced with the ways of wood 🙂
http://www.aeronet.com.au/waveguide.htm
http://www.aeronet.com.au/waveguide.htm
Well, well, well... All roads lead to Rome. And Great Minds think alike.
The Blue Wonders are certainly what we were aiming for. Even the dimensions are close to what I came up with.
As for big box, small box, The BW use only 5.5 feet. That's going to push the low end response up some, but that's what you want in a PA speaker. The "important" part of the bass is centered around 100Hz. That's the chest pounding range as well as the Boom-Boom you hear in car stereos. Don't confuse low end extension with low end thump. They aren't the same thing.
I saw those 18" Hammers at P.E. but didn't suggest them because I know nothing about them. The price is in the range of the other 18s we've been looking at.
So now where do we go? Are the Blue Wonders the choice? Or a slightly bigger version? Later on, Punkrokr can add more bass with a horn or other tuned Sub, if he wants.
The Blue Wonders are certainly what we were aiming for. Even the dimensions are close to what I came up with.
As for big box, small box, The BW use only 5.5 feet. That's going to push the low end response up some, but that's what you want in a PA speaker. The "important" part of the bass is centered around 100Hz. That's the chest pounding range as well as the Boom-Boom you hear in car stereos. Don't confuse low end extension with low end thump. They aren't the same thing.
I saw those 18" Hammers at P.E. but didn't suggest them because I know nothing about them. The price is in the range of the other 18s we've been looking at.
So now where do we go? Are the Blue Wonders the choice? Or a slightly bigger version? Later on, Punkrokr can add more bass with a horn or other tuned Sub, if he wants.
I think they are a good starting point. Once he has assembled those he might find that they are more than enough to impress his friends. These might be a great stepping stone into future projects.
It did slip my mind several times....we should be on the pay-role at PE.....but nothing spectacular.....all very straightforward and fundemental
Yes, understood that we need a bump. various people say it is centered around 70hz others say around 100 hz.
The Blue wonders are only 5.5 cu ft , but the text says that he thinks they are still a bit big and need more "bump"
Probably because its an 18"
So, I was thinking we reduce the cabinet a little more, to say 5 cu ft, which we should check on a box program, to get more bump.
THEN I was thinking that if he adds a second woofer, he could tune it to a bigger box to fill in the lower bass. That way he would get the best of both worlds...
I'm surprised the designer is crossing over the tweeter so low. Usually you want to use the great midrange driver (note how much he likes the Beta 8/Hammer 8 ) higher, but he says he tried it like that and didn't like it so much. A tweeter made to go lower might be better in this case...
I'm making these suggestions because I think we are in pretty good agreement with what the design is generally, and now can discuss the options without too much confusion..
A shame to let the good drivers get away so we need to wrap this up so he can order!
The Blue wonders are only 5.5 cu ft , but the text says that he thinks they are still a bit big and need more "bump"
Probably because its an 18"
So, I was thinking we reduce the cabinet a little more, to say 5 cu ft, which we should check on a box program, to get more bump.
THEN I was thinking that if he adds a second woofer, he could tune it to a bigger box to fill in the lower bass. That way he would get the best of both worlds...
I'm surprised the designer is crossing over the tweeter so low. Usually you want to use the great midrange driver (note how much he likes the Beta 8/Hammer 8 ) higher, but he says he tried it like that and didn't like it so much. A tweeter made to go lower might be better in this case...
I'm making these suggestions because I think we are in pretty good agreement with what the design is generally, and now can discuss the options without too much confusion..
A shame to let the good drivers get away so we need to wrap this up so he can order!
Cal and I have the predecessor t o these, the 205ti and they are surprisingly good. Also a step up to serious PA gear. How about these with a waveguide instead of a horn? They are tough and could take that low crossover frequency... That way we have Tinitus's waveguide, and a driver that can stand up to low crossover AND play loud enough without a horn. The thing is , we are stressing the tweeter with a low crossover AND a waveguide, which isn't as efficient as a horn
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-235&DID=7
with the waveguide recommended for the "Blue" It will screw right on...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=270-316&CFID=36340&CFTOKEN=97570937
Total cost $60 per tweeter assembly but Punkr won't have to change it ever. If the cost is too high, use the "Blue" recommended one.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-235&DID=7
with the waveguide recommended for the "Blue" It will screw right on...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=270-316&CFID=36340&CFTOKEN=97570937
Total cost $60 per tweeter assembly but Punkr won't have to change it ever. If the cost is too high, use the "Blue" recommended one.
wow, alot has happened sine I was gone.
Those Blue Wonders, damn it they were the same colors I was planning on making my speakers.
But I don't want them even though they are pretty much close to what we are talking about.
it is a easy way out but I want to be able to proudly show off my speakers and say that I made them.
I just don't feel comfortable having someone else design in my system.
I'm a do-it-yourselfer all the way.
I was really looking forward to making the cabinet in those colors.
But now that someone else has used them I can't use them, it's simply a matter of honor.
So, this may seem cocky but I want to use the Blue Wonders as a challenge.
You guys think I'm up to the challenge?
I am.
I like challenges, I will work my *** off again if I have to cause I want to make something supremely all in it's own category.
OK, you guys were discussing the woofers. In that chart I didn't exactly see what it was comparing but whatever it was they all looked to be pretty much the same.
Ok, if I had to put it in % terms I'd say I'd want to woofer to be 60% bass 40% loud.
Ok, that isn't the best way to put it.
As far as the cabinet enclosure size there are no size limitations.
I repeat NO size limitations.
I want the most bass possible without sacrificing too much SPL.
You all probably know this. But I want these to STAND OUT when faced up against out speakers of the same price and range.
Say I did loan them out, which I would never do unless I was there at the party, people will come and immediately notice my speakers. If I had to out it in one word I'd say HEIGHT. Not only do I want them to have huge drivers that pump the bass out, and able to scream out jet-engine sound levels, but want them to be HUGE. Nothing like 20 feet tall or anything but I was shooting around 7ft when it's all said and done, but that seven feet would be with a sub in the same width enclosure at the bottom, i was thing the enclosure for the two woofer, mid-range and tweeter be about 5' to 5'5" the with the sub enclosure being around 3 feet tall.
That's what I want. Be I know it's probably not what I'm gonna get.
I'm starting to get cocky, yes, but I'm throwing my ideas up there to see what you guys think.
And then what you come up with. I've said it once and I'll say it again, THANK YOU ALL!
You guys stuck around even when I was being a typical stubborn teenager. Thank you.
And for arguments sake I'm not that concerned about how much bass it will get at extreme volumes cause I won't be turning it up that loud 98% of the time.
So what do you guys think?
as far as an enclosure I want it to be whatever will pull that booming bass out of the driver. Which ever one is best to use.
and if I was too use the Madison dragon driver, which would eventually be two, I will want to push these beasts har so what would I use to power them?
1200 watts rms seems like an overrating so I think that around 700 or 800 watts rms seem more reasonable so that would be 1600 watts rms for both woofers @ 4 ohms if I wire them in parellel, right?
So what could I use to power them?
Plate amps were mentioned and where can I get those?
Or am I just taking steps backwards?
If I am I'm sorry, I've had a long day at school. 3 exams and 5 tests so this post will probably be giant step in the wrong direction but give me a little room, please, my brain is fried.
Oh and I'm am in no hurry to order I want this to be thought out so no rush guys.
Those Blue Wonders, damn it they were the same colors I was planning on making my speakers.
But I don't want them even though they are pretty much close to what we are talking about.
it is a easy way out but I want to be able to proudly show off my speakers and say that I made them.
I just don't feel comfortable having someone else design in my system.
I'm a do-it-yourselfer all the way.
I was really looking forward to making the cabinet in those colors.
But now that someone else has used them I can't use them, it's simply a matter of honor.
So, this may seem cocky but I want to use the Blue Wonders as a challenge.
You guys think I'm up to the challenge?
I am.
I like challenges, I will work my *** off again if I have to cause I want to make something supremely all in it's own category.
OK, you guys were discussing the woofers. In that chart I didn't exactly see what it was comparing but whatever it was they all looked to be pretty much the same.
Ok, if I had to put it in % terms I'd say I'd want to woofer to be 60% bass 40% loud.
Ok, that isn't the best way to put it.
As far as the cabinet enclosure size there are no size limitations.
I repeat NO size limitations.
I want the most bass possible without sacrificing too much SPL.
You all probably know this. But I want these to STAND OUT when faced up against out speakers of the same price and range.
Say I did loan them out, which I would never do unless I was there at the party, people will come and immediately notice my speakers. If I had to out it in one word I'd say HEIGHT. Not only do I want them to have huge drivers that pump the bass out, and able to scream out jet-engine sound levels, but want them to be HUGE. Nothing like 20 feet tall or anything but I was shooting around 7ft when it's all said and done, but that seven feet would be with a sub in the same width enclosure at the bottom, i was thing the enclosure for the two woofer, mid-range and tweeter be about 5' to 5'5" the with the sub enclosure being around 3 feet tall.
That's what I want. Be I know it's probably not what I'm gonna get.
I'm starting to get cocky, yes, but I'm throwing my ideas up there to see what you guys think.
And then what you come up with. I've said it once and I'll say it again, THANK YOU ALL!
You guys stuck around even when I was being a typical stubborn teenager. Thank you.
And for arguments sake I'm not that concerned about how much bass it will get at extreme volumes cause I won't be turning it up that loud 98% of the time.
So what do you guys think?
as far as an enclosure I want it to be whatever will pull that booming bass out of the driver. Which ever one is best to use.
and if I was too use the Madison dragon driver, which would eventually be two, I will want to push these beasts har so what would I use to power them?
1200 watts rms seems like an overrating so I think that around 700 or 800 watts rms seem more reasonable so that would be 1600 watts rms for both woofers @ 4 ohms if I wire them in parellel, right?
So what could I use to power them?
Plate amps were mentioned and where can I get those?
Or am I just taking steps backwards?
If I am I'm sorry, I've had a long day at school. 3 exams and 5 tests so this post will probably be giant step in the wrong direction but give me a little room, please, my brain is fried.
Oh and I'm am in no hurry to order I want this to be thought out so no rush guys.
I thought the BlueWonder was our rescue....but sure, if you want to go on with this....fine with me....rockandroll
At least we have a better idea of the drivers now
I Still like that other Dayton PF 460 better....lower Fs...higher VAS....and better sensitivity still.....nice and smooth cone....might be whats missing....more volume
And it will need some bigger ports....about 3 pieces of 10cm(diam.)
Hammer 8" could do good with a waveguide too....part of what is missing....makes it couple better to woofer....now woodworking isnt any problem
Variac, I too like that compression driver....what I requested from the start....but noone seemed to respond....but sure, in one of those big waveguides, would be very nice
But we still have the biggest problem....dealing with crossover
On the other hand, this wont be a handy speaker to drag around to parties any more.
But ofcourse, you could limit it to just doing minor changes.....but it might not make a lot of difference
....though maybe tweeter only needs a big waveguide.....instead of that odd looking trumpethorn.....cant be good at high frequencies....?
I think I am with Cal on this.....Blue Wonder....its done....and we helped along.....arent we lucky....and hopefully Punk will be too.
If done properly....we should do it ourselves....it was only a panic rescue for Punk....and very funny it turned out that way....I think in fact, PE saved our *****...can I say that
Cheers guys
Bye
At least we have a better idea of the drivers now
I Still like that other Dayton PF 460 better....lower Fs...higher VAS....and better sensitivity still.....nice and smooth cone....might be whats missing....more volume
And it will need some bigger ports....about 3 pieces of 10cm(diam.)
Hammer 8" could do good with a waveguide too....part of what is missing....makes it couple better to woofer....now woodworking isnt any problem
Variac, I too like that compression driver....what I requested from the start....but noone seemed to respond....but sure, in one of those big waveguides, would be very nice
But we still have the biggest problem....dealing with crossover
On the other hand, this wont be a handy speaker to drag around to parties any more.
But ofcourse, you could limit it to just doing minor changes.....but it might not make a lot of difference
....though maybe tweeter only needs a big waveguide.....instead of that odd looking trumpethorn.....cant be good at high frequencies....?
I think I am with Cal on this.....Blue Wonder....its done....and we helped along.....arent we lucky....and hopefully Punk will be too.
If done properly....we should do it ourselves....it was only a panic rescue for Punk....and very funny it turned out that way....I think in fact, PE saved our *****...can I say that
Cheers guys
Bye
We can work with that, but the calcs are implying that a smaller cabinet is better. BUT we can make it less deep which is better for your room! Don't panic guys, the original design is 36" tall, a second woofer makes it about 5' that's pretty darned tall... If later he wants a sub under it that's 7' right there.
HEY GUYS Here is a new Idea:
Can we make it like a D'apollito, with a Hammer 8 above the waveguide and a Hammer 8 below it? They are soooo cheap why not?
WELL because I don't understand the issues with the crossover and stuff, that's why. That would give efficiency to handle even the 2 woofers later...
HEY GUYS Here is a new Idea:
Can we make it like a D'apollito, with a Hammer 8 above the waveguide and a Hammer 8 below it? They are soooo cheap why not?
WELL because I don't understand the issues with the crossover and stuff, that's why. That would give efficiency to handle even the 2 woofers later...
Yeh, like Variac said since the hammer's are so cheap culd we just put one above and one below the tweeter?
Oh, because I like the word BIG would putting in two eminence 12LTA's be unreasonable?
I'm just throwing up what ever comes to mind till I strike gold.
Oh, because I like the word BIG would putting in two eminence 12LTA's be unreasonable?
I'm just throwing up what ever comes to mind till I strike gold.
goodness gratious me...I wrote my other post before Punk posting....but dont mean much difference.....
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