How should I wire my 1500 watt speakers?

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#141
Punkrockr,
You can now see a problem with a forum like this.
Lots of people give you conflicting advice and then yell at you when you don't do it their way. Some people posting are not experts (incliding myself) so it is right to be careful

BUT , you have accepted that a single tweeter is the way to go.
Now accept that a piezo tweeter isn't a good path. They are cheap and nothing more. Some claim they can make them work OK , but generally for only very high frequencies and most people just avoid them unless they just don't care about sound.

Here is that link I just posted before. The guy writing it is an expert. He is talking about what to use with a 12" , but his advice will work with a 15" also. Please read it.

Panomaniac first recomended an 8" mid, That is what the person linked to above recommends. That is the classic setup I was referring to. Note the 8" the expert is recommending- the Eminence, which is cheap too. It also has better specs than the 10" you were looking at and better dispersion (ie the sounds spreads wider so you can hear good sound even if you aren't directly in front of the speaker) ) than a 10 or 12 inch. In a normal room you NEED good dispersion, as sretin is concerned about.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-404



Here's a tweeter the expert mentioned:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-534

Mount it as close as possible above the mid.(touching it)

Lots of people like pro drivers in a home audio situation. You just need to choose carefully- especially regarding the dispersion issue.

Everyone knows about these drivers-they are classics, so you could even sell then in the future if you needed to.
 
#143
Since you don't have much money now, You should probably just buy one 15" per side now, and build it up with the 8" and the tweeter.
Then buy a second 15" later or better, a low bass driver, and put it alone in a second box, the same width as the first and put it under the first cabinet.Tha's a versitile , pro approach

Remember, the 8" needs a separate comparetment built into the main box. It needs to be isolated from the 15" sound!
 
#144
I have to agree with all the above comments about the piezo tweeter. Don't do it! They sound awful. Get the tweeter that Variac suggests, or if you can't afford it, get this little horn tweeter. . I put that little guy in the photo with the girls, but it's hard to see.

My advice is to go with the pro drivers. It's the sound you want. They will party louder and cleaner than a "home" style driver. There are two main problems with pro drivers for home use.

1) Cost. Pro drivers are made to take a beating, so they are often very $$. But you found some that won't break the bank. Good.

2) Box size. Pro woofers need a big box. And still you won't get much below 50Hz. Not that there is much music down there. Plenty of big, big pro rigs don't really go below 40Hz, and you know what kind of bass they have! Yes, you will need a big box for those 2 15s. You WILL need about 10 cubic feet. No way around it.

The advantage of the pro drivers is that they will give you great sound at very high levels. They will sound good at lower levels too. That Pioneer isn't really a pro driver, but kinda between pro and home.
You don't need lots of X-max with this set up. With 4 X 15s in big boxes, they won't have to move much to give you tons of bass.

Your speakers are starting to look like this:
2 X Pioneer 15s
1 X Eminence Beta 8" (in a 0.3ft box inside main box.)
1 X Horn tweeter

Box size 11.5 cubic feet (10 for the woofers, 1.5 for all other stuff).
Box dimensions: 22Wx60Hx18D
Use 3/4" MDF. Brace like crazy inside with 2x4s
Put handles on the box! They're going to be big and heavy.

You don’t need subs to start with. “Maybe” later, but I doubt it.

OK. Get them started!
 
#145
Well Variac, I think my advice about a 18" is very solid....a 300USD driver sold at 150USD....whats wrong with that....or a 200USD also sold at 150USD....????....thats 50 "bucks" more than the cost of two 15" Pioneers ????, please...who is kidding who ???

But actually I too like the 15" Pioneer and would have recommended it a long time ago, but with a 3mm Xmax and small magnet.... I dont know... possibly it will be flapping all over the place when Punk turns up the rockandroll

To get solid deep bass from PA woofers 18" is the way, and I only recommend it to Punk because he can get a decent quality at low price

I also think a good woofer is the place to start, if the tweeter is mounted outside cabinet its easier to change a tweeter later, rather than rebuilding the whole lowend

Take another look, Dayton 18" produced by Emminence ?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-444
 
#147
I do like those curved membrane, but I seriously think they are guitar speakers....100db efficient means less bass, and Qts 0.8...?...might be a nice widerange for DIPOLE ?

Panomaniac....I dont get it....you rate those 15" pioneers as Pros...I actually think they may be VERY nice hifi drivers for low levels....nice foam surround, and smooth paper cone asking fore some coating 😉

Punk...no worry...it will work.....as I said you made some wise choice...get on with it!

Bye!
 
#148
Variac said:
Panomaniac first recomended an 8" mid, That is what the person linked to above recommends. That is the classic setup I was referring to.
Click to expand...
Good. A mid will respond better to mid frequencies if it's not so massive. An 8" driver will often match a tweeter better than a 12". There's no need to use such a large mid.
panomaniac said:
There are two main problems with pro drivers for home use.
Click to expand...
Some pro drivers have a small magnet, high Q. Some pro drivers have a pleated surround with low mechanical compliance, high efficiency and a high resonance frequency.
 
#149
BTW....do you have MONACOR in USA.....they have some nice TRUVOX 8-10"drivers, made by CELESTION 😎

You cannot in generel say that smaller drivers have better topend, its often very ragged where you can see a bigger one have smoother rolloff

1. You have to consider how high you will cross woofers....it will determine which size midwoofer to chose....I would say with a cheap plateamp with highest crosspoint at 125hz...then a 10" or 12" mid would be fine without any crossover(highpass)

2. If you choose all passive you will have to cross higher....and could use a smaller mid.....be aware of sensitivity
 
#150
tinitus said:
Panomaniac....I dont get it....you rate those 15" pioneers as Pros..
Click to expand...

They aren't. But when I first saw them I was thinking of these Pioneer. . Not a "true" pro driver, but close.

The Poineer 15s he wants lean more toward the home Hi-Fi style, you are right. But they still need a big box to play low- 5ft (142L) each And they are nicely efficient. Hard to say what they will sound like without hearing them first.

I also agree with you that a single 18" per side could be nice. There are some decent $150 18s out there. Not too hard to cross to an 8" mid. But I think the double 15s will kick harder. And that's what he wants.

But whateverz. Any of these classic designs will work great and be big and loud. And his buddies will call him the "Speaker God" when he gets them running.

To which he will reply :yell: "WHAT??!!!" :yell:
 
#154
As I have mentioned , I would prefer a nice (behma?) (or for cheap: Selenium) slot tweeter but I have been listening to my client, Punkrockr and it is clear he wants a larger, horn loaded tweeter for its appearance. IMHO the Eminence I selected is quite handsome and is known to sound good.

I am pretty convinced the mid and tweet are just what he needs, but as far as the bass, other than thinking a 12 is too small, I DON"T HAVE AN OPINION because when I don't know I try (and its tough) to shut up 😉

I don't know how an 18" will hook up to an 8" It IS a very serious looking piece of gear and probably of better quality than most choices. I actually like the idea a lot. BUT the total cost of my client's recent coices added up only leaves $80 per channel for the bass driver(s)

That looks like either 2 really cheap Pioneer 15" or maybe one better one. I think Cal and I both are big fans of Selenium for the money. I have a WPU 15 and it is a monster. It has been superceded though, and is more like $150 each

Ok here are all the 15" pro drivers at PArts Ex

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGroup_ID=582&sm=1&so=2


18"

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&ObjectGroup_ID=583&sm=1&so=2

I hope people that know will look them over. I think a driver for a bit smaller box would be nice, as sretin points out but we are very limited here, and $80 is the price as far as we know at the moment.
 
#156
Ok, I think if going for quality single driver bass, it needs to have at least 6mm Xmax....then you are easily into the 150 USD range

So going fore two cheaper 15" will mean they will have to move less, so the 3mm Xmax might be OK....if budget is really tight....my appology, I was not aware of that

So the suggested "buyout" Hammer 8" at 25USD (made by Emminence)
would save a bit to get a better tweeter...if neccesary ?

I wonder if Punk is aware that AKTIVE also means an extra amp, but maybe he could find an old receiver...and passive components cost money too, big components sometimes a lot

But I have seen plateamps around that dont cost more than a single big inductor
 
#157
Crikey! It's a scorcher today! Just came back inside from working on the motorcycle and cleaning the surf boards. Hot! :hot: Better off in here in the cool and talking about big speakers...

Cal Weldon said:
I can't suggest it's up to the task either.
Click to expand...

Thanks Cal, good to know. I vote we go with Variac's horn.

Variac. Where did the $80 figure come from? Don't seem to be able to find it. Must reread the recent posts.

18" drivers are OK, and I've seen them crossed up pretty high. But usually they are just used to add foundation to the "real" woofers, the 15s. What does Cal think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW and OT. Thanks for the slot tweeter idea, Variac. I may have to try the Selenium version. Right now I'm running a Selem 210 and horn crossed high. But the driver offset is making me crazy. I think the phase shift/ timing thing is hurting my ears. Should be easier to get the slot tweeter aligned.

Also I've been looking at the Selenium WPU1505 or 1507 as a bottom end for my Altec 811/806 combo. In about 5 feet. So you like the WPU? (Maybe I should take this to another thread.)
 
#159
Like it was mentioned bfore I don't mind a big box at all in fact that's actually what I'm shooting for but I don't need it too big.

And as for the peizo tweeter I was just throwing it out there to see what you guys thought which was pretty much my first impression.
2 bucks? yeh right. I knew it was gonna be a bad choice.


Oh and I went to the link Music Supply center and I think I found something that will most likely work for me.

http://www.musicsupplycenter.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=813-003&Show=TechSpecs

I was thinking of one of these in each cabinet at first then when I got the guts and money to get another pair I would put em in.
So I guess if I do use these I'll leave plenty of room in the bottom of the cabinets for another one of these.

I mean it looks impressive and all but I'm doubtful of these ratings.

I mean a 200oz magnet?
That's like almost 17lbs
1200 watts RMS?
A 20 mm XMAX
and all this at a sensitivity of 95 db.

I don't know, to me it is starting to sound like one of those over rated Car speakers.

well, what do you guys think?

i t sounds to good to be true but you never know.

Judging by the specs on it I'd buy a pair, but not without some input on them.

Oh and as far as my budget right now I have around $400 in spending money but I wouldn't mind working some more to afford the "good" stuff.

But I don't plan for anything more than $600 unless the drivers are monsters at one hell of a price.

What do you think?

Oh and here's another ridiculously rated woofer, it's similar to the Dragon

http://www.musicsupplycenter.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=813-007&Show=TechSpecs
 
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