I'm finishing a sub based on the Shiva EBS alignment. It's a cube about 23" along a side, around 145 litres.
I'm planning on veneering three sides of the cube, and have been looking on Ebay for veneer. She Who Must Be Obeyed wants something "nice," by which (after long discussion) I have discovered she means dark-coloured and preferably a burl-type finish.
It seems that most or all the veneer available on Ebay is in smaller pieces and unbacked, ready for matching and applying in a patchwork sort of way. There is a big selection of affordable and beautiful wood.
I've never veneered anything before, so I've been reading everything I can find on the subject, but I still have a couple of fuzzy areas.
- The big question: is this sort of veneer suitable for a keen-to-learn novice? I don't mind the extra work, but equally I don't want to mess up the box I spent hours on. This veneer seems like the only way I'll be able to afford that beautiful walnut burl finish I am picturing. If it's not going to work, I'll have to use plain paper-backed cherry or red oak.
- I plan to use a veneer saw to cut and match the sheets together. Then I'll need to seal the back of it with shellac and use either contact cement or watered-down wood glue to fix it to the MDF, then finish as desired. Am I thinking along the right lines?
I'm planning on veneering three sides of the cube, and have been looking on Ebay for veneer. She Who Must Be Obeyed wants something "nice," by which (after long discussion) I have discovered she means dark-coloured and preferably a burl-type finish.
It seems that most or all the veneer available on Ebay is in smaller pieces and unbacked, ready for matching and applying in a patchwork sort of way. There is a big selection of affordable and beautiful wood.
I've never veneered anything before, so I've been reading everything I can find on the subject, but I still have a couple of fuzzy areas.
- The big question: is this sort of veneer suitable for a keen-to-learn novice? I don't mind the extra work, but equally I don't want to mess up the box I spent hours on. This veneer seems like the only way I'll be able to afford that beautiful walnut burl finish I am picturing. If it's not going to work, I'll have to use plain paper-backed cherry or red oak.
- I plan to use a veneer saw to cut and match the sheets together. Then I'll need to seal the back of it with shellac and use either contact cement or watered-down wood glue to fix it to the MDF, then finish as desired. Am I thinking along the right lines?
Mike,
first of all burl type veneers are a bitch to work with because they usually come only in small pieces. Don't think matching and properly glueing them together for the first time will give you a result that would be high on the WAF.
So the future of your project is that bleak......no. Why not use nice maple (birdseye (very small burlls)) with papercoating (or very thin MDF) which is still affordable. If you want to get fancy you can always order something like this:
example
paper backed burl veneer, must be expensive 'cause in the pricelisting it says "inquire" 😱
Glue it with either contact glue or just your regular PVAC (woodglue, you have to press/iron this) voila presto.
Stain it with red stain (the normal dark colors work fine) and finish it of with high glass lacquer.
When veneering MDF you'll want to inpregnate the bare sides with 1:gleu/2:water let it set and sand it again. If you don't do this the edges become visible after a year or so because MDF always expands unless you let it set with water/gleu
Good luck,
Ralph
first of all burl type veneers are a bitch to work with because they usually come only in small pieces. Don't think matching and properly glueing them together for the first time will give you a result that would be high on the WAF.
So the future of your project is that bleak......no. Why not use nice maple (birdseye (very small burlls)) with papercoating (or very thin MDF) which is still affordable. If you want to get fancy you can always order something like this:
example
paper backed burl veneer, must be expensive 'cause in the pricelisting it says "inquire" 😱
Glue it with either contact glue or just your regular PVAC (woodglue, you have to press/iron this) voila presto.
Stain it with red stain (the normal dark colors work fine) and finish it of with high glass lacquer.
When veneering MDF you'll want to inpregnate the bare sides with 1:gleu/2:water let it set and sand it again. If you don't do this the edges become visible after a year or so because MDF always expands unless you let it set with water/gleu
Good luck,
Ralph
Ralph:
Thanks for the help.
That's a shame. I found some larger pieces that would cover a side with 2 or 4 of them, and was hoping that wouldn't be too difficult -- but if it's going to be that hard I might have to go the simple route.
Seems like the birdseye maple (which is very pretty) still runs about $250+ a sheet...that's about 4 times what I was hoping to get the job done for. Do you have a cheaper source? If it can be found cheaper, that stuff would be perfect -- I am sure the Mrs. would like it.
Yup. I highly doubt it will be anywhere near approaching my price range, which was why I was investigating "other options." Tapease has some half-sheets of plain walnut for about $25, so perhaps I'll go with that.
I will certainly do this. Thanks for the tip.
Thanks for the help.
rwagter said:
That's a shame. I found some larger pieces that would cover a side with 2 or 4 of them, and was hoping that wouldn't be too difficult -- but if it's going to be that hard I might have to go the simple route.Seems like the birdseye maple (which is very pretty) still runs about $250+ a sheet...that's about 4 times what I was hoping to get the job done for. Do you have a cheaper source? If it can be found cheaper, that stuff would be perfect -- I am sure the Mrs. would like it.
Yup. I highly doubt it will be anywhere near approaching my price range, which was why I was investigating "other options." Tapease has some half-sheets of plain walnut for about $25, so perhaps I'll go with that.
I will certainly do this. Thanks for the tip.
I'm also looking at my first veneer job. All the feedback seems to agree that paper backed veneer is the only way to get good results for newbies like us. My speakers are pretty big and it's looking like 160 USD to cover with plain old cherry. The sheets are 24" x 96" and cost about $40 locally
Variac paper backed is certainly not the only way. My first project was just plain cherry.
I just coated it with PVAC, also the speaker and ironed it on (my mother is a "feminist" so I had experince in this erea 😉 )
Mike where do you live cause I have some maple left.... send me a mail.
Ralph
I just coated it with PVAC, also the speaker and ironed it on (my mother is a "feminist" so I had experince in this erea 😉 )
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, my second project was with birdseye maple, also without a paper back.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Mike where do you live cause I have some maple left.... send me a mail.
Ralph
rwagter said:
Very pretty. That veneer looks great. Do you think it would take a darker stain?
What kind of driver is that? It reminds me of some B&W(?) speakers I auditioned 5 or so years ago...they were nice.
Well, that is a lesson I learn over and over here. I should only mention stuff I actuallly know about 🙄
I guess the iron on approach helps make this easier. At least your Mom had an iron!!!!. Get used to your own ironing 😉 I have to iron any shirt I want to look good or send them out. My wife isn't interested (who would be?)
I guess the iron on approach helps make this easier. At least your Mom had an iron!!!!. Get used to your own ironing 😉 I have to iron any shirt I want to look good or send them out. My wife isn't interested (who would be?)
Check out Tape Ease's ribbon mahogony. It is most excellent. A very pretty venner, a 4x8 sheet can be had for under $50 I think. Sand, seal the grain and 320grit sand some danish oil into it (about 3 or 4 times) for a phenominal finish that is absolutely stunning.
Scott
Scott
ScottRHinson said:
That is very pretty stuff, and like you say it's affordable. Is there a particular product you use to seal the grain? It looks like this might be a good alternative.
mike_2468 said:
Yeah, pretty much that's the stuff. Anything similar would work as well. Don't stain this veneer or only lightly tint the Danish oil if you do want to change color slightly. Make sure the grain sealer is roughly the color of the wood...make a test piece for sure.
Scott
I'm sold on mail ordering the ribbon mahogany. Thanks a lot.
So you apply the danish oil with the 320 grit paper on a block?
So you apply the danish oil with the 320 grit paper on a block?
I've been thinking about veneering my first set too. My speakers are small so I'm planning on pressing the veneer on with a thick mdf sheet and clamps. Think yellow wood glue would hold the veneer down permantly, I see some special veneer glues but I can't really justify a whole bottle for a couple tiny speakers. They're going to be 9.5 inches tall and 7.5 wide, just some small bookshelf sized things. Also, I'm going to use maple, probably quilted or the violin stuff, and I want to dye it a vivid blue like Paul Reed Smith guitars. Some guys told me you can just sponge on water based dye, think that would loosen the wood glue. Guitars are solid wood so they don't have to worry, what glue do you guys use if your going to be putting a water based finish on? Oh, this is for bare veneer.
Thanks
Thanks
Variac said:
Yup. You don't need to press hard at all, just run the sandpaper over the veneer a lot to build up a mush of danish oil and wood. Wipe it off, completely and immediately after sanding. If you don't you'll get a rough spot, which is easily fixed by more danish oil and sanding!
Scott
Keith D said:
I doubt you'll get even and sustained pressure unless you use a lot of clamps. Yellow glue also stays softer than any of the other methods that I've used. As a result I've never gotten it sanded as smooth and as well as I want to without going through the wood into the paper backer.
I use a water based veneer adhesive these days, but plain old contact cement works well. Apply two thin layers to both speaker and veneer letting them dry for 15 minutes between layers. Let dry another 10-15 minutes and put it on the speaker. Once contact cement touches (if it's ready to be put down) it's down, so start in the center and work air bubles out, slowly and carefully. Practice first. Veneer put down with contact cement can be removed, but it involves a hair dryer and a lot of patience.
I don't like dyed woods. So I can't help you with that one.
Scott
ScottRHinson said:
The best bet is to get both spirit and water based stains, and maybe a gel stain as well, and test them on spare bits of veneer, as different woods, (and cuts of woods), take the stain differently.
For bright colours however, you are just about limited to Analine dye stains. For guitars, these are mixed with the varnish and sprayed on over a sealer coat, so the stain never actually touches the wood. This does require a very good spray setup, and much practise though.
Analines do work with hand application, but you should mix them with a compatable finish before applying, otherwise it is very easy for the inexperienced to get a blotchy result.
Thanks for the insight into this. I'll ask the veneer company I buy it from what they think. If I get extra I can at least try some different methods of dying and gluing. Someone at a guitar forum told me the way to get the dyed look is to first stain the raw wood black with aniline and sand it, removing the soft wood and leaving the darkened "dark" wood, this helps bring out the pattern they say, then you go over it with the final color. Supposedly water based dye is better because it dries slower and won't blotch so much, and supposedly I can use a sponge. My dad has as sprayer but he's never used it, neither have I, it's just the jar type you hook up to a regulated air compressor. For glue do I just use regular contact cement from a craft store or is there a special contact cement for wood?
Thanks again
Thanks again
Keith D said:
Weldbond makes a contact cement available in quarts and gallon sizes from Home Depot and Lowes. As tempted as you may be, do not get the water based version, it will not hold very well at all. Read and follow all the instructions on the back. Especially the working in a well ventilated area part. This stuff is nasty, but works very well when applied properly. 2 coats. 2 coats ...2 coats.. 😉
Scott
Keith D said:
If you are gonna use raw veneer, get a cheap 9" adhesive roller cover from Home Depot, cut it into thirds, and use them on a 3" trim paint roller to apply the glue to the substrate. Yellow or white wood glue will work. Use a piece of mdf and some clamps as a makeshift veneer press, with a piece of waxed paper between in case some glue bleeds thru the veneer.
You can apply water based dye, but use more diluted shade, since you may have to go over it 2 or 3 times to even out the color, and each time it will get darker.
In the image below, I used Constantines red mahogany "water stain" on curly maple from ebay, with about 6 coats of clear wipe on polyurethane afterwards.
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