Hi,
Quick poll, how high are people getting away with crossing tapped horn subs... I'm running MTH30 with recommended PD driver,from 40 to 130hz with 24db LR filter on amp, reckon we can run tapped horns higher..to 180?? with eq or not a good move? Cheers, Al (for live work in this case)
Quick poll, how high are people getting away with crossing tapped horn subs... I'm running MTH30 with recommended PD driver,from 40 to 130hz with 24db LR filter on amp, reckon we can run tapped horns higher..to 180?? with eq or not a good move? Cheers, Al (for live work in this case)
Al,
The upper range depends on the individual TH design, but a bit over two octaves from Fb (box tuning, excursion minima) to the usable top end before response gets too peaky is typical.
The MTH30 with a Fb around 50 Hz response appears to start to "go bad" about 160Hz.
The response of the two TH below give some idea of what you might expect, the white trace, an 18" TH design, has an Fb is around 38 Hz, smooth to 160 Hz, usable (more or less..) to 230 Hz. The green trace a 10" TH design, Fb is around 60 Hz, usable response to around 315 Hz.
Art
The upper range depends on the individual TH design, but a bit over two octaves from Fb (box tuning, excursion minima) to the usable top end before response gets too peaky is typical.
The MTH30 with a Fb around 50 Hz response appears to start to "go bad" about 160Hz.
The response of the two TH below give some idea of what you might expect, the white trace, an 18" TH design, has an Fb is around 38 Hz, smooth to 160 Hz, usable (more or less..) to 230 Hz. The green trace a 10" TH design, Fb is around 60 Hz, usable response to around 315 Hz.
Art
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Hi Art,
Ah-ha, thank you for your reply and information. Ive been pondering selling my current tops and going for a design based on WAE audio's interesting colum of faitalpro 4s or was it 5s? He thought they should be crossed over at 180 so I reckon I might get away with it. This is for small pub gigs and I didnt fancy having to make a reflex to replace the MTH30, if I cpuld coax it just high enough. Fingers crossed! Its for live gigs. Cheers, Al
Ah-ha, thank you for your reply and information. Ive been pondering selling my current tops and going for a design based on WAE audio's interesting colum of faitalpro 4s or was it 5s? He thought they should be crossed over at 180 so I reckon I might get away with it. This is for small pub gigs and I didnt fancy having to make a reflex to replace the MTH30, if I cpuld coax it just high enough. Fingers crossed! Its for live gigs. Cheers, Al
3*Fb could be a decent guide. So a 35 Hz TH may be good to just over 100 Hz. More technically, you need to look at its phase response. While its FR above 3*Fb might suggest it could be done perhaps with a bit of EQ and a sharp filter, its phase response might result in some issues through x-over region.
This is a very good point Brian, and well made.
I find that in general there is an almost purely response driven view of where the XO could be set, and this is true for sources with excellent time domain behavior, this i however rarely (never?) the case, especially above ~3xfb for higher order designs.
I´m not sure about this so please correct me if I´m wrong, but I believe that at low frequencies the response could be regarded as indicative (note the word) of the time domain behavior, but not always, and it does not always clear to which extent a deviation in the response is reflected in the time domain.
Extending this argument, one should consider whats is on the other side of the XO, the top system, and how that source behaves in the same regard, normally though this is a simpler arrangement such as surface mounted reflex loaded designs and usually the time domain behavior can be estimated as fair if the design operates above tuning and driver resonance.
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Hi,
Food for thought! I shall play with sub and see how it sounds crossed higher, adly not able to until next week. Unfortunately it wont be ideal as have to do my testing indoors at home but at least, hopefully , could hear some of the effects, at least with current top. Ultimately if it sounds ok it should be ok...ish! If not back to drawing board. I appreciate the time youve taken to help me out. This forum is excellent , and Martinsonn, im sorry I did not go for your THAM design, just too big to fit with kit for gigs. Its a Peugeot with roofbox... my wife calls it Klampit sounds, cheeky sod!!!
Food for thought! I shall play with sub and see how it sounds crossed higher, adly not able to until next week. Unfortunately it wont be ideal as have to do my testing indoors at home but at least, hopefully , could hear some of the effects, at least with current top. Ultimately if it sounds ok it should be ok...ish! If not back to drawing board. I appreciate the time youve taken to help me out. This forum is excellent , and Martinsonn, im sorry I did not go for your THAM design, just too big to fit with kit for gigs. Its a Peugeot with roofbox... my wife calls it Klampit sounds, cheeky sod!!!
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Try a Karlson
A Karlson speaker is classified as a 6th order bandpass box, but it also has similarities to a tapped horn. This speaker was designed to take advantage of the rear wave of a driver, control the speaker's excursion lowering distortion and improving impulse response, but spread out the resonances to provide a wider bandwidth than a tapped horn.
A Karlson also throws the wavefront forward similar to a tapped horn, thus, it better matches the soundstage of other horn speakers, and better than bass-reflex speakers.
Retsel
A Karlson speaker is classified as a 6th order bandpass box, but it also has similarities to a tapped horn. This speaker was designed to take advantage of the rear wave of a driver, control the speaker's excursion lowering distortion and improving impulse response, but spread out the resonances to provide a wider bandwidth than a tapped horn.
A Karlson also throws the wavefront forward similar to a tapped horn, thus, it better matches the soundstage of other horn speakers, and better than bass-reflex speakers.
Retsel