My econowaves were 8k with subs.
I just kept upgrading parts and eventually I ran out of ideas
Radian 475be which replaced BMS 4550s on Seos 10s
AE TD10m
4 LMS ultra subs
Venu 360 active crossover
The boxes were never finished and now I’m too old to move this stuff. The intention was to do an automotive paint finish. They have been trenched at the seams and filled with bondo.
Ive heard the expression, “spendy waves”, but these turned into mortgage waves.
i got really bored with no projects so I made proper speaker stands to move the compression drivers to ear level while seated
I just kept upgrading parts and eventually I ran out of ideas
Radian 475be which replaced BMS 4550s on Seos 10s
AE TD10m
4 LMS ultra subs
Venu 360 active crossover
The boxes were never finished and now I’m too old to move this stuff. The intention was to do an automotive paint finish. They have been trenched at the seams and filled with bondo.
Ive heard the expression, “spendy waves”, but these turned into mortgage waves.
i got really bored with no projects so I made proper speaker stands to move the compression drivers to ear level while seated
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Impressive. I like the Horta (Star Trek reference) room treatment.😁 I would love to hear some Bruckner on that system. My Econowaves keep getting more expensive too, but so far nothing with Apollo upgrades.
We are likely the minority with knowledge of the Horta.
I did get the Apollo upgrade. That was a big dinner I missed out on right there.
Im in Colorado Springs if you are ever in the area and want to have a listen
I did get the Apollo upgrade. That was a big dinner I missed out on right there.
Im in Colorado Springs if you are ever in the area and want to have a listen
I would love to have a listen! I pass thru COS every now and then, we’ll see. Thanks for the invite!
with a 1" +12" and a 1.2-1.3khz crossover your still never going to get good mids regardless of drivers. its just too big and heavy, in a 3-4way most people try to use as small and light as possible (within reason and effeciancy)
built the gainphile s15 years ago and regardless of what i did mids were flat and carbord-sounding.. there are drivers that are better ofcourse but imo its never going to be "good" compared to a 3-way or a larger horn with 500-800hz crossover.
built the gainphile s15 years ago and regardless of what i did mids were flat and carbord-sounding.. there are drivers that are better ofcourse but imo its never going to be "good" compared to a 3-way or a larger horn with 500-800hz crossover.
I agree with Jonasz, the size of the cone doesn’t necessarily make for bad midrange. That’s one of those audio rules of thumb that just won’t die. A 12” subwoofer with a heavy poly cone probably won’t produce any good midrange, but a pro sound 12” intended for bass-midrange with a paper fiber cone will reproduce excellent midrange. Just look at all the OB and full range systems here in the forum. Now, putting the crossover at 1.2Khz is a different story. I don’t see why it can’t work well though? If it’s designed well it should work well, or within reason. With DSP it should work great, or so I’ve been told.
All of the AE TD drivers are ridiculously light weight cones, and they have less distortion than the compression drivers they are used with.
I am looking to build something bigger which will be a three way. B&C 15" + JBL CMCD81h midrange compression driver, and my existing Radian 475BePb. My hesitation is what I would be getting for the $3000 project when what I have is top shelf now.
The JBL is actually an 8" cone compression driver with a phase plug on a 90x60 waveguide. It can be used 250 to 3500 depending on the waveguide. I would use it 400 to 1700 to get pattern control to 400hz. Reviews of those who have heard it say it is the best they've heard.
I have SEOS 10 and SEOS 15 waveguides but would look to cross to the 475 at 1700 or so.
The JBL midrange compression driver:
The phase plugs:
The waveguide:
I am looking to build something bigger which will be a three way. B&C 15" + JBL CMCD81h midrange compression driver, and my existing Radian 475BePb. My hesitation is what I would be getting for the $3000 project when what I have is top shelf now.
The JBL is actually an 8" cone compression driver with a phase plug on a 90x60 waveguide. It can be used 250 to 3500 depending on the waveguide. I would use it 400 to 1700 to get pattern control to 400hz. Reviews of those who have heard it say it is the best they've heard.
I have SEOS 10 and SEOS 15 waveguides but would look to cross to the 475 at 1700 or so.
The JBL midrange compression driver:
The phase plugs:
The waveguide:
the best test for midrange is speech intelligibility. netflix, news broadcasts etc. it takes me only seconds to hear how bad large drivers sound ccompared to compression driver mid or a small cheap cone. there is directivity differences ofcourse, but when you need to turn up the volume in order to hear clearly what people say when there is nothing wrong with the FR im left scratching my head over these distortion measurements i see around etc.
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JBL crosses it at 480hz.
My need is not for low end but rather to cross my Radian higher in frequency up top.
My need is not for low end but rather to cross my Radian higher in frequency up top.
It sounds doable, it's just that you were expecting pattern control down that low. I'd ordinarily expect to go 3 times larger for that, or considering the vertical angle used there, 4 times larger. If JBL specified for PA use the priorities would all be different.
The horn appears to be from a PA model crossed at 480Hz, JBL calls it waveguide, M.F. (363395-002), no phase plug, not very expensive.
http://bee.mif.pg.gda.pl/ciasteczkowypotwor/#pro_audio/JBL/jbl_prx535/PRX535.pdf
http://bee.mif.pg.gda.pl/ciasteczkowypotwor/#pro_audio/JBL/jbl_prx535/PRX535.pdf
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The Titan 615 uses a 16 inch wide midrange waveguide that should have fallen apart at 850hz or so but held its pattern to 550 or so. I've seen multiple examples of patterns getting held lower than the math suggests. It's part of a system.
The horn shown above was also purchased by NWCgrad for his JBL build and he posted this picture using that exact horn, the JBL 2169h and it needs the phase plug to mount the 8" mid to the horn. Here it is assembled (he posted all the part numbers and posted this picture of the one he assembled with the phase plug installed). JBL used the CMCD81h in more than one speaker. Some used that horn with the 165 mid and others used the 8" with the phase plug which also serves as an adapter to mate the horn to the 8".
He documented the build in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/jb...eaker.2759289/?post_id=50934393#post-50934393
JBL's design:
Attachments
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The JBL 1508 was, I believe $7k and used far batter parts than the cheap 535, 635, and 735 which all use that same waveguide but with a 6" midrange that bolts on without the phase plug/adapter. That mid was the 165h.
I did edit out the 'not true' statement. Your info was correct but wasn't the speaker I was referencing for my proposed build.
I did edit out the 'not true' statement. Your info was correct but wasn't the speaker I was referencing for my proposed build.
That16 bucks is for the gasket, not the waveguide.
Here is the waveguide:
https://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/jbl-5024540-prx735-midrange-horn-lens/
Well, a funny mistake, could be the gasket, yes. Nevertheless that was from an official parts listing and the part number seems to match.
