Would a Kinoshita monitor also count as expensive Econowave ?
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
Thanks to everyone posting links! This is great and very inspiring to me. I want to get some kind of router pantograph set up and make some horns.
I don’t think so, they all seem to have dual woofers. I think an Econowave should have one woofer and one tweeter. This ‘rule’ leaves out a lot of great speaker systems from JBL, etc. However it does allow for Altec 19’s. Unless I enforce the original Altec loudspeaker box size which was thrown out early in the Econowave evolution. It does allow for the JBL 4367 and Humble Homemade Hifi’s Calpamos.
A good argument could be made that the Kinoshita crosseyed woofers act like one woofer.
Hello Barry
Remember these threads? Quick and Dirty 4430? I hope this summary works. It's OK with me hope other can see it as well. Fits well in an Econowave thread!
Rob 🙂
https://www.audioheritage.org/vbull...y-4430-Inspired-Contents&highlight=quick+4430
Remember these threads? Quick and Dirty 4430? I hope this summary works. It's OK with me hope other can see it as well. Fits well in an Econowave thread!
Rob 🙂
https://www.audioheritage.org/vbull...y-4430-Inspired-Contents&highlight=quick+4430
Hello Rob!
I do recall some of that. That is a treasure trove of econo info!!
Thank you for the reminder. I have started rereading some if it. 🙂
Barry.
I do recall some of that. That is a treasure trove of econo info!!
Thank you for the reminder. I have started rereading some if it. 🙂
Barry.
Hi I’d like to build 3 speakers for an LCR in my new home theatre. Does anyone have an Econowave design they’d be willing to share please? Would like something with high sensitivity (>90s)/high SPL (110dB).
Thanks
Thanks
Hi,
Basicaly an econowave kind of speaker is a horn/waveguide with compression driver and a woofer.
The thing is you choose the horn/waveguide and woofer driver diameter to match about directivity at crossover point.
From there it's open to constant coverage waveguide ( or not...), capability of woofer to go low and high enough,....
Given you requirements about spl i would go (minimum) for 12" and a waveguide with 90* coverage at circa 1200hz and up.
And maybe add a second bass dedicated woofer ( xover circa 100hz).
Take a look at Pispeakers, he offer a clone of eminence waveguide which offer constant coverage at said frequency.
https://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/...ucts_id=276&osCsid=ndfrrsq5mcpdho91v99an6smg5
Search for measurements they are there in Pispeakers's forum iirc.
You could be inspired by what he use in the loudspeaker which use the waveguide ( Pi 4), check the option given for the woofer in kit form, it's 15" though.
Food for thoughts:
https://gainphile.blogspot.com/2010/11/s15-econowave-dsp.html
What kind of xover would you want to implement? Passive or active?
Basicaly an econowave kind of speaker is a horn/waveguide with compression driver and a woofer.
The thing is you choose the horn/waveguide and woofer driver diameter to match about directivity at crossover point.
From there it's open to constant coverage waveguide ( or not...), capability of woofer to go low and high enough,....
Given you requirements about spl i would go (minimum) for 12" and a waveguide with 90* coverage at circa 1200hz and up.
And maybe add a second bass dedicated woofer ( xover circa 100hz).
Take a look at Pispeakers, he offer a clone of eminence waveguide which offer constant coverage at said frequency.
https://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/...ucts_id=276&osCsid=ndfrrsq5mcpdho91v99an6smg5
Search for measurements they are there in Pispeakers's forum iirc.
You could be inspired by what he use in the loudspeaker which use the waveguide ( Pi 4), check the option given for the woofer in kit form, it's 15" though.
Food for thoughts:
https://gainphile.blogspot.com/2010/11/s15-econowave-dsp.html
What kind of xover would you want to implement? Passive or active?
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when it comes to "cost" the one factor that can significantly increase the price of something is "profit margin"....
and yes it's easy to find ludicrously priced components but that then becomes the antithesis of what an "econowave" is....(best bang for little dollars)
you'd get different input and participation if you renamed the thread " let's make a Spendywave"!
and yes it's easy to find ludicrously priced components but that then becomes the antithesis of what an "econowave" is....(best bang for little dollars)
you'd get different input and participation if you renamed the thread " let's make a Spendywave"!
Yes I do, Read that one many times. That was from Zilch, the inventor of econowave. "Babies" is another good thread over there. Quick and dirty peed off the snobs on the LH forum, it lead to Zilch getting A "DIY" over there.
My econowave is a 4430 clone. Used same 5 cu ft JBL box, same tuning, same bass crossover and zobel for JBL 2235H woofers. I do have a NOS set of the JBL butt cheecks horns, but currently use the QED unit and B&C 250 compression horns, which I found superior to the classic jbl unit.
You'll most often see pictures of RM-4 ( dual woofers, horizontal) or RM-7 mesa ( MTM) but Kinoshita's RM-5 and RM-11 are single woofer+horn. Siblings to Pioneer/Tad Exclusive range ( RM-4/ Exclusive 2401, RM-5/11 Exclusive 2402/2404). Only the MTM ( single woofer as in RM or dual as in Warps) was Kinoshita's 'own original' acoustic design.
So in my view they meets requirements for ( pricey!) Econowave.
Yes the horizontal arrangement behave as a virtual 'single' driver. In practice i found this to be a tad ( pun intended) too much directive wrt RM7 or 2402. Maybe the room acoustic was at play too? I don't know i never heard RM-4 outside a control room.
My economical econowave design:
Dayton woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-PA310-8-12-Pro-Woofer-295-032?quantity=1 On sale! Good bang for the buck with this woofer.
El cheep-o Pyle tweeter: https://www.parts-express.com/Pyle-PDS182-1.5-Titanium-Horn-Driver-8-Ohm-292-2618?quantity=1
Dayton (supposed JBL copy) waveguide horn: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-12-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-TPI-270-318?quantity=1
I put the woofer in a 1.5 cu ft enclosure with a slot port on the bottom, a regular round port would be fine. The f3 is around 60hz so a subwoofer may be required depending on your rumble factor.
The crossover was not economical. I followed the Pi Speakers recipe of a 12db low pass on the woofer and 18db high pass on the tweeter. Ref Pg 56. https://pispeakers.com/Speaker_Crossover.pdf This white paper should be mandatory reading! I set the level with an L-pad by ear and then measured the legs of the L-pad with my multimeter to get the resistor values for padding the tweeter down. My system measures relatively flat from 60-15,000hz and sometimes sounds a bit forward. I could back the tweeter off a bit or use a better tweeter. Rush sounds absolutely fantastic turned up to 11. These speakers like a moderate to large (Not Bezos sized but big) sized room.
All the audio snobs calm down! This speaker sounds great, well, ok, good. Also, it must be good because my wife keeps telling me to turn it down🤣🤣🤣
This design is the exact opposite of what this thread is about and is more in line with the original intent of the Econowave. If you want them to play louder (~95db) use two woofers in a 3cu ft box (still not huge) and modify the crossover for 4 ohms.
If I could change anything I would buy a better tweeter. Also, look at these: https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Calpamos.pdf
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