That's some statement !
There is no theory and just in case you might be wrong you throw in a get out free clause.
There are simple electrical theories that could be used to explain some of the audible effects of badly designed/implemented power supply cabling.
I do need a conditional clause to hide behind !
Last edited:
I've lost track..should I agree to disagree, or disagree about agreeing??? Maybe disagree about disagreeing?😕
If one were fortunate enough to take the two day seminar given by Tom Van Doren on EMC, one would have seen a demonstration of this exact scenario with a piece of RG-58 and a two port box. One would also see that the path break was in the single digit khz range, like 1 khz. (actually, it was not 1, but about 45 guys).
The basic concept is, control the current path. Just using a coax in an audio system does not guarantee that the return current will all be through the shield. That compromises the effectiveness of the shield against time varying magnetic fields (dB/dt). And as a result of that compromise, some of the return current will be along a path that has a huge loop to accept dB/dt. And, the safety ground is packaged with the line cord hot and neutral with major odd harmonic line frequency currents and magnetic fields.
I think you meant to say a high q resonator? An oscillator requires gain.
yah, nitpicking...sorry.
Cheers, John
John,
One of these days I am going to hook up a coax loop and some small light bulbs to a decently powered oscillator.
My current fun rig has a piece of LCD type glass with a conductive tin coating on one side and a piece of one side clear anodized aluminum. I measure each in front of the newbie with an ohm meter and an impedance meter. The ohm meter shows infinite on the glass and zero on the aluminum. The impedance meter gets the exact opposite results. True it is stage magic, but I love the explanations of what they saw.
So you see we disagree again, you probably wouldn't be so cruel!
ES
One of these days I am going to hook up a coax loop and some small light bulbs to a decently powered oscillator.
My current fun rig has a piece of LCD type glass with a conductive tin coating on one side and a piece of one side clear anodized aluminum. I measure each in front of the newbie with an ohm meter and an impedance meter. The ohm meter shows infinite on the glass and zero on the aluminum. The impedance meter gets the exact opposite results. True it is stage magic, but I love the explanations of what they saw.
So you see we disagree again, you probably wouldn't be so cruel!
ES
Posted these before, but again I think it is an excellent introduction to a lot of the problems being discussed here, it also has some interesting takes on Star grounds (are they realy good?)
I prefer to engineer a solution for each instance rather than follow the same outdated formula for every situation.😀
That should set the cat amongs the pidgeons...
Again EMC courses run be Keith Armstrong are very good.
A Practical Interference Free Audio System (Part 2)
Designing for Interference-free Audio System Components
I prefer to engineer a solution for each instance rather than follow the same outdated formula for every situation.😀That should set the cat amongs the pidgeons...
Again EMC courses run be Keith Armstrong are very good.
A Practical Interference Free Audio System (Part 2)
Designing for Interference-free Audio System Components
Last edited:
Possibly an interesting and relevant link from this months PCB007 magazine Transmission Lines from D.C.:
http://www.pcb007.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=78003&artpg=1&topic=0
http://www.pcb007.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=78003&artpg=1&topic=0
Yes, the full transmission line impedance formula is not as well known as it should be. People just need to be aware, however, that in a very short line (wrt wavelength) you don't need to worry about distributed reactance as a lumped approximation is close enough. (At this point someone will produce a picture of a very sharp pulse bouncing up and down 2m of cable and claim that it is relevant to analogue audio).
Power leads make no difference to the sound and are one of the big audiophool scams.
I'll get my coat.....
I'll get my coat.....
Change "no" to "little" and I will agree. They will make most difference in a poor setup (which may be quite expensive!) and fancy mains leads may change the sound by degrading it. Having just spent a fortune, people regard any change as an improvement.
Audiophile power leads look like snakes and are sold by snake-oil salesmen.
The power leads go to a plug (installed in 1968 in our house) then through solid wire to a fuse panel then out to the transformer buries under somebody's lawn just in from the street. It then goes to a substation about a mile north of here and it has come from a grid fed from Niagara Falls, the Pickering Nuclear Station, the Nanticoke coal station etc., etc.
So somebody is trying to tell you there is a sonic difference? Tell them to prove it by blind tests. Funny how the thought of a blind test seems to make these salesman slither away like snakes.
The power leads go to a plug (installed in 1968 in our house) then through solid wire to a fuse panel then out to the transformer buries under somebody's lawn just in from the street. It then goes to a substation about a mile north of here and it has come from a grid fed from Niagara Falls, the Pickering Nuclear Station, the Nanticoke coal station etc., etc.
So somebody is trying to tell you there is a sonic difference? Tell them to prove it by blind tests. Funny how the thought of a blind test seems to make these salesman slither away like snakes.
Lab Gruppen had to change their power cord when they entered the US market! You might try reading the thread from post #1 to see why.
It would be VERY easy to build a counter example. And to even find real-life conuter examples. I've seen aluminum building wire that is un-insulated stabled to subs. Such rubbish was actually build in Florida
The problem is, they definitely can.
Some people may, others are more critical.
That's quite a generalisation - some of them look like power leads and are constructed for pennies by diyers. http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/merlino.html
I'm sorry, I don't have a clue what you are getting at.....
Last edited:
Power cables make no difference whatsoever under any circumstances. Anyone who claims otherwise is either deaf. deluded or trying to scam people out of their hard earned money.
Over and out.
Over and out.
he is simply saying that if you replace one foot or two of the wire in the power cord it does not matter, if the house has rest of the wires in the walls of low quality...get it?
No I don't ..... get it. I'm sorry, I fail to see how
=
I thought he called it rubbish???? Why would it be rubbish if it made no difference at all and was perfectly functional ?
Perhaps the post was made in some peculiar American dialect with which I am unfamiliar. I thought all posts on this forum were supposed to be made in English.
You are just plain wrong, and perhaps deluded and/or deaf. Some after market 'audiophile' power cables can really screw up the sound. I personally have no theory as to why, but if you were to actually to have read this thread you would have found a couple of pretty good hypotheses from rather knowledgable people as to why this might be so. The circumstances under which this might actually be so are also described. If you explored the world with a more open mind you might actually learn something.
=
I thought he called it rubbish???? Why would it be rubbish if it made no difference at all and was perfectly functional ?
Perhaps the post was made in some peculiar American dialect with which I am unfamiliar. I thought all posts on this forum were supposed to be made in English.
You are just plain wrong, and perhaps deluded and/or deaf. Some after market 'audiophile' power cables can really screw up the sound. I personally have no theory as to why, but if you were to actually to have read this thread you would have found a couple of pretty good hypotheses from rather knowledgable people as to why this might be so. The circumstances under which this might actually be so are also described. If you explored the world with a more open mind you might actually learn something.
Last edited:
The reason why expensive power cords sound better, is mainly because of the money transfer function Qp=Qr(P*A)^I.
Qp= perceived quality, Qr = measurable quality, P = the sum of money transferred to the audio dealer and A = the hype in Audiophile. I = the gullibility index, which varies from individual to individual. It may even have different values for the same individual, but in different circumstances.
In the case of power cords, my I comes down to a complete 0.
vac
Qp= perceived quality, Qr = measurable quality, P = the sum of money transferred to the audio dealer and A = the hype in Audiophile. I = the gullibility index, which varies from individual to individual. It may even have different values for the same individual, but in different circumstances.
In the case of power cords, my I comes down to a complete 0.
vac
Last edited:
I wrote that. Let me explain. There were houses built in some parts of the US with house wire in the walls of such poor quality that calling the electrician's work "trash" or "rubbish" is kind. Some parts of Florida lacked any kind of building codes and the free market ruled. It was like that in others places at times also.
I made it as a counter example to the statement that the last few feet of wire matters to most. It is easy to think of other cases where a few feet of gold plated wire can not un-do the harm cased by many feet of under sized and corroded cable.
That is the worst problem with aluminum, it corrodes especially in humid climates, like Florida and where it comes in contact with other metals.
The thing about wires and all conductors is that the effects are additive. The last 4 feet matters as much as the first four feet. I think Kirchoff's law still applies even to high-end audio
- Status
- Not open for further replies.