In any industry which exists to make profits, badge/brand snobbery is foolishness.
They even tried this with the perfume industry, according to my missis, a well known smelly snake oil purveyor sold the same perfume in different bottles containing the same quantity, one quite plain and the other fancy looking. The plain bottle was priced £40.00 and the fancy one was £250.00. They carried out an experiment on their customers. Even when the shop told all prospective buyers it was exactly the same perfume, they still preferred to buy the £250.00 bottle. One woman when asked said she would not feel as 'appreciated' if her man had only paid £40.00, even when she knew the truth.
I know this story is OT, but I think that many hifi customers fall for the same marketing ploys which are commonly used elsewhere. Buyer beware.
They even tried this with the perfume industry, according to my missis, a well known smelly snake oil purveyor sold the same perfume in different bottles containing the same quantity, one quite plain and the other fancy looking. The plain bottle was priced £40.00 and the fancy one was £250.00. They carried out an experiment on their customers. Even when the shop told all prospective buyers it was exactly the same perfume, they still preferred to buy the £250.00 bottle. One woman when asked said she would not feel as 'appreciated' if her man had only paid £40.00, even when she knew the truth.
I know this story is OT, but I think that many hifi customers fall for the same marketing ploys which are commonly used elsewhere. Buyer beware.
Hi Helmuth,
I don't know the answer to that question despite having heard both cartridges, primarily because they were on different tables and arms. The MC20 is a good cartridge, but whether or not it is a good match to your arm is another question. The set up I heard the MC20 on was not in the same league as the one with the DL-103 so no fair comparison could be made.
If the price is reasonable it can't hurt to try it, providing it matches the arm well enough, and if nothing else you will learn something.
I don't know the answer to that question despite having heard both cartridges, primarily because they were on different tables and arms. The MC20 is a good cartridge, but whether or not it is a good match to your arm is another question. The set up I heard the MC20 on was not in the same league as the one with the DL-103 so no fair comparison could be made.
If the price is reasonable it can't hurt to try it, providing it matches the arm well enough, and if nothing else you will learn something.
Good question? It certainly has a much better stylus, but very low output (0.09mV). Give it a try.
jeff
I think as a minimum you should check whether the resonance matches the effective mass of the arm you're planning to use.
Jan
WTF? I bought one from William Thackker (sp?) years ago, it arrived in about a week, free shipping no less.
jeff
I'm sorry Mr. Bruce Wayne; I cannot seem to recall you, and your profile here leaves no clue either; you leave absolutely nothing!
* But! If I dig down deep into my memory; you and I did communicate in the past, here and there, and that's a while ago too. And we always got alone just fine.
Nice to see you back Bruce! 😎
Best,
Bob
EDIT: Yes, I recall now; over at WBF.
Hi Ben,
"At the end it's mainly a question of Preference"
You may say all you want, just like I, but the fact of the matter is that it is the truth!
The only accuracy in this audio hobby is the correct relationship between measurements done right and listening sessions done right as well.
It is complex, not so simple, and very simple at the same time. 🙂
Nice meeting you!
Bob
Hi Jan,
"Eye in the Sky"
What I was referring to with that line jusy above is that whatever force is watching us from way above and beyond our own comprehension and knowledge could be as much be a 12" LP, or a 5" CD, or even an 8" R2R tape; representing that 'spinning' round eye in the audio sky of the eternal universe. 🙂
Please to make your acquaintance.
Bob
____________
____________
* And Mr. Stefano, you did not reply to my simple request (question): What Esoteric machine did you use in the past?
Regards,
Bob
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The "quality" of LPs varies in several ways. Cleaning can always help, even on new LPs - I've read something about mold release material being left over from the pressing. The various cleaning machines that have come along (it seems ironically toward the end of the LP era as a popular medium) can do a lot for the quality of playback.
On the other hand, there are recordings that had bad technical quality from the start. As a 13-year-old I built and enjoyed my Heathkit GD-109 record player with ceramic cartridge and "standard" Garrard 4-speed idler-drive changer, but even on that I noticed the "Hair" broadway musical soundtrack album didn't sound as good as the other LPs I had. I forgot about this until I listened to it (this was almost certainly a different copy) a couple decades later on slightly better quality equipment and noticed it again. There was something about the pressing or production that left a lot to be desired.
On the other hand, there are recordings that had bad technical quality from the start. As a 13-year-old I built and enjoyed my Heathkit GD-109 record player with ceramic cartridge and "standard" Garrard 4-speed idler-drive changer, but even on that I noticed the "Hair" broadway musical soundtrack album didn't sound as good as the other LPs I had. I forgot about this until I listened to it (this was almost certainly a different copy) a couple decades later on slightly better quality equipment and noticed it again. There was something about the pressing or production that left a lot to be desired.
I've also bought a number of poor quality recent pressings from Amazon. I've had to return some. Some have had abrasions across them and a couple have been slightly bowel shaped, several have had releasing agent still on them and I don't have a fancy record cleaning machine to remove it. I don't see why I should have to clean brand new vinyl. It has put me off buying new records to some extent.
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By the very obvious sticky gunk which is coating the surface, what else could it be? It's not easy to remove it either.
It could be lots of things. I'm unaware of any record pressing company using external mold release.
From what I've been able to find out, it's caused by excessive application of the releasing agent. Some plants here have not been training staff very well, I only hope you don't have the same issues in the US. People in the UK seem to put up with bad service far more than they should, it's a cultural thing, not wanting to make a fuss or to be seen as awkward. We are confrontation averse in many ways, whether it's poor quality food or other goods/services. Mustn't grumble is a common expression from our not too distant past......we do but not to the right people it seems. If you google - 'poor quality UK vinyl pressings' you will see what I mean. I am by no means the only person to bring attention to this. I get roughly one in ten pressings which are sub standard, the few pressings I have bought from the US have been excellent so maybe you have not had this issue, hope not anyway.
I no longer buy any records at all from Amazon.com, had quite bad luck with the few I did.
Good sources for used records online are discogs, and musicstack, and often eBay. I purchase far more used disks than new ones.
I purchase new records from Elusive Disc and Acoustic Sounds.
I've had no problems at all finding good vinyl lately, there seems to be plenty of it out there, when buying used look at the ratings of the seller and the rated condition of the vinyl - obviously subjective, but the more experienced dealers IMLE generally get it right. (discogs and musicstack, some eBay sellers as well)
I have a recently acquired VPI HW16.5 RCM, they are unfortunately expensive, and unobtainium used - I looked for a long time before buying a new one, but there are relatively good inexpensive alternatives like the Spin Clean. A thorough cleaning makes a difference on almost every disk I have tried it on so far, sometimes to my surprise.
http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/
Several of my friends swear by these things and I have used one, definitely works although I like my VPI much better. The VPI cost an arm and leg whereas the spin clean is relatively reasonably priced at under $100.
Good sources for used records online are discogs, and musicstack, and often eBay. I purchase far more used disks than new ones.
I purchase new records from Elusive Disc and Acoustic Sounds.
I've had no problems at all finding good vinyl lately, there seems to be plenty of it out there, when buying used look at the ratings of the seller and the rated condition of the vinyl - obviously subjective, but the more experienced dealers IMLE generally get it right. (discogs and musicstack, some eBay sellers as well)
I have a recently acquired VPI HW16.5 RCM, they are unfortunately expensive, and unobtainium used - I looked for a long time before buying a new one, but there are relatively good inexpensive alternatives like the Spin Clean. A thorough cleaning makes a difference on almost every disk I have tried it on so far, sometimes to my surprise.
http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/
Several of my friends swear by these things and I have used one, definitely works although I like my VPI much better. The VPI cost an arm and leg whereas the spin clean is relatively reasonably priced at under $100.
Could you give me an example of a record-pressing plant that uses any sort of external mold release?
I don't have the names of the pressing plants to hand but I did read an article about this some time back - couple of years ago, I don't remember where it was now. They apply a wax type agent of some sort to the stamper plates to make removal quicker, it means they don't have to wait for the vinyl to cool down fully before removing it. There was something of a rush to re-open a couple some old pressing houses in the London area a few years back and there was issues with staff training etc. That much I do remember, it seems there are still issues which have not been addressed properly. This is quite a common conversation on UK hifi forums btw.
I thought the vinyl biscuit had an additive that prevents it from sticking to the stampers, and that there is no external mold release applied. (?) I read an article some years ago that went into the process in some detail, Stereophile if I recall.
I would not be surprised to hear that there are different practices extant depending on the plant. I will say that all recent pressings I have purchased have been very good. (Sound quality varies, but pressing quality is good)
Anything from Amazon is suspect. The few I got were warped and dirty, these were new pressings. I've never seen anything like that from any other merchant.
I would not be surprised to hear that there are different practices extant depending on the plant. I will say that all recent pressings I have purchased have been very good. (Sound quality varies, but pressing quality is good)
Anything from Amazon is suspect. The few I got were warped and dirty, these were new pressings. I've never seen anything like that from any other merchant.
I have both. The MC20 is a competent cart with much better highs and lows than the 103. Midrange - not so obvious - in a sympathetic arm even an unmodded 103 has some midrange magic most Ortofons lack. I have also found the same to be true about the much more expensive Kontrapunkt B.
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