That is too foundational a concept to pass without some glosses on it.
My take on "taste," is that there's no arguing about it, which sounds better in the Latin original if not Sumerian. On the other hands, "taste" can be broken down to more basic values such as accuracy of reproduction, freedom from distortion that gives you headaches, and so on.
When a person has long experience, they will become more perceptive and can address the more basic values. Less abstractly, when you live with a system and/or hear better systems, you get to notice things about your system and your "taste" becomes more discriminating. Indeed,you can't help it doing so.
So if you stick to the "taste" argument, you end up saying, "Well, it may have more distortion, but I like it that way....."
In other words, the taste argument is just a temporary refuge from looking deeper.
Ben
Agree, i lost most of mine during the years i was mostly digital , maybe 1500 Lp's currently ...
IMO the DL-103 in its stock form is pretty mediocre, rehousing it makes a huge difference - that said my first SPU, a GM E II absolutely clobbered it. I still think for the sort of money we are talking here a modified DL-103 is a pretty competent cartridge. I was given a Golden Note Bobboli ($800) HOMC and the ZU Denon DL-103 definitely outperformed the Bobboli in direct comparisons. (Resolution, dynamics, extension at both extremes.) The Bobboli was quite boring sounding by comparison.
You know I have this recurrent nightmare where this alien ship comes in earth orbit and they start to eavesdrop our comms to decide whether we are an intelligent species yet.
Through some freak statistical fluke, this thread is the first thing they read.
What saves us from immediate and total eradication from the galactic gene pool is their incredible sense of humor, so they just leave and make a note in their calender to check again in another million years. Or two 😉
Jan
Not agree, I've got less than 500 albums (folks say I'm a difficult/complicated character). Say at $25 an album, I'd need several hundreds more before breaking even on the replay total figure.
Amusing about Mr Kevin is that a comparable new serial manufacture figure guesstimate of his vinyl replay total would be somewhere in the $15K ball park. Yet he compared it with an sacd player that went for 2.5 when new.
Somewhat unfair, don't you think.
Despite being seriously into vinyl I have deliberately reduced my collection which got very bloated. Donations from friends, piles of records from my parents, local library system. Think I had about 2K, now reduced to about 700, most in very good condition and representing music I might actually listen to once in a while - even so I probably still have a couple of hundred I have not listened to in years, some of those will eventually go. I'm still buying both new and used so it will grow.. 😀 (I have several friends with 10K+ disks, imo there is not enough time in a busy lifetime to listen to all of them, so I wonder what the point is..)
Kevin what would you advise me buy a DL103 or DL103R. These are so long popular that they have to be one of the best around when it come down to low output MC.
Body modification is no problem for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ENq8PoXhaU
Hi Helmuth,
I've not heard the DL-103R in my system, but have heard it in other systems. I would probably go for a standard DL-103 and rehouse it, depends on budget I suppose. The claims are that the R has more refined highs while retaining the character of the original DL-103, I think if money is tight that getting the standard DL-103 and rehousing it is the better choice. Note that there is some risk in rehousing - Thomas Schick has a good video on how to proceed. Numerous choices of bodies on eBay and there is (was?) a good one available from a member at Lenco Heaven.
I've not heard the DL-103R in my system, but have heard it in other systems. I would probably go for a standard DL-103 and rehouse it, depends on budget I suppose. The claims are that the R has more refined highs while retaining the character of the original DL-103, I think if money is tight that getting the standard DL-103 and rehousing it is the better choice. Note that there is some risk in rehousing - Thomas Schick has a good video on how to proceed. Numerous choices of bodies on eBay and there is (was?) a good one available from a member at Lenco Heaven.
Actually list on the 777ES was $3.5K reduced from $5K when sales figures were not achieved.
Also you are somewhat north of what my vinyl set up cost, although I am flattered. I will admit there is a huge amount of sweat equity in the vinyl playback hardware (other people pay me for my time) and I have not included the electronics so you might be closer than I would be willing to admit at least in terms of replacement cost. 😀
The modified 777ES is surprisingly good in any case, the differences between it and my vinyl are not embarrassing particularly given my emphasis.
I say got for the "R" if you're going to spend time futzing around with different bodies etc. I have both 103's stock. They are not hard to remove from the plastic body, the 103 almost fell out, it was that easy to remove.
jeff
jeff
Thanks for the information Kevin, that is what I needed. I can have a aluminumbody made at my work or make a hard wood version with my Router at home. No problem.
Because you are so positive about the ZU aluminum seems nice. I could go to the hobbymarket an buy a aluminum U profile. For 12,-euro. Cut off, how hard can it be.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
OK, since you seem interested i'll expand on this.
I think I already mentioned that many of my lp's are poor to very poor quality, they sound even worse on a more revealing system.
I have maybe 60-70 albums on vinyl which sound really good. Spending several thousand on a turntable and cartridge would be nice but it just isn't a priority. I'm not knocking anyone who does but my opinion with regard to what I have, is MY opinion and I am entitled to it.
I currently have a £500.00 turntable, a £160.00 cart and a couple of phono stages, one diy which cost around £140.00 to build not including it's separate power supply. I also have a cheap Musical Fidelity stage which along with it's power supply cost roughly £200.00. I think I have spent enough for now considering the quality of most of my vinyl. Allowing a bit for the diy power supply, I make that roughly $1700.00, not an insignificant amount to me but then i'm not a rich man.
My collection is also variable, but I do not have a lot of really bad records in my collection, all of them sound markedly better on the improved hardware.
FWIW, I'm not rich either, the system I have today has evolved over a long time, is predominantly diy, and came together after long waits for key components to turn up at reasonable prices. (I waited nearly 10yrs for the TD-124/II I now own for example, and got it well below market) I originally started designing and building audio electronics because most of what I was interested in owning was financially beyond reach. I got good enough at it that I was able to build and sell electronics to other people - this helped make the connections and earn some of the money that ultimately ended up in my system.
FWIW, I'm not rich either, the system I have today has evolved over a long time, is predominantly diy, and came together after long waits for key components to turn up at reasonable prices. (I waited nearly 10yrs for the TD-124/II I now own for example, and got it well below market) I originally started designing and building audio electronics because most of what I was interested in owning was financially beyond reach. I got good enough at it that I was able to build and sell electronics to other people - this helped make the connections and earn some of the money that ultimately ended up in my system.
Your performance expectations always have correlations to $$$$.
High prices are driven by two things: innovation and demand. In case of vinyl high prices from innovation and limited supply are long past. Now prices are high because demand is so low that manufacture is limited to scale with high overhead.
This is now driven in part from competition from product with superior marketability: digital. CD is only one media type that served as market introduction.
Other driving force is naivety and laziness leading to assumption that most expensive product is best. Reaffirmation by like minded individuals leads to badge and brand snobbery. This is not limited to analog gear.
This is evidenced by many posts here that only digital gear that might equal or surpass analog recording is the most expensive. Such a view is close minded denial of truth, which has nothing to do with price.
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