Likely the ones who think a decent TT+TA+PC can be had for less than a Cleveland voucher.
Last time i witnessed that was in the mid '70s, and only so-so.
(OMG, Doug was right, i'm the ugliest i ever met, often sit in a lonely dark room when i read these pages. Last time i dated a legal teenager of my choice has been close to a decade ago, and i've dust brushed LP's for more than four)
I have about 3000 vinyls and about 3000 cds. I've probably also got several hundred shellac 78s. If I listen to one vinyl a year it's a lot. I don't remember the last time I listened to a 78. Maybe it was around 10 or 15 years ago to test out an old Miracord 50H I bought for my aunt when her other record changer broke down (the Miracord failed also, motor burned up after running weeks without stopping when the switch shorted out.)
I didn't know there were vinyl listening clubs. Are there sub groups within the club? The moving coil sub group as opposed to the moving magnet sub group? What about other clubs? Is there a vacuum tube listening club? Do they have sub groups too like say the non feedback versus the feedback group? The class A versus the class AB group? Fascinating. So how do you go about finding a group that meets all of your requirements? The vinyl moving coil non feedback class A horn speaker passive preamplifier group that listens only to blue grass recordings made on a tuesday? You might just find yourself becoming a club of one.
Actually, there are.
And overhere, several shops orchestrate multiple day TT-events each year.
Example of one such event a couple of months ago, with the option to have the TT checked, or the cartridge by AJ :
YouTube - Nationale pick-up dagen Johan Ketelaar & A.J. van den Hul
You don't get out much, nowadays ?
And overhere, several shops orchestrate multiple day TT-events each year.
Example of one such event a couple of months ago, with the option to have the TT checked, or the cartridge by AJ :
YouTube - Nationale pick-up dagen Johan Ketelaar & A.J. van den Hul
You don't get out much, nowadays ?
Wow, you guys read a lot into a post that isn't there.
TerryO belongs to the Puget Sound! group in Seattle. An audio group like most others. They have some great get togethers. They had a recent one that was vinyl themed, or digital vs vinyl, I'll have to ask Terry.
But heck, I wouldn't mind going to a vinyl listening club. Beer, whiskey, good music. It's about all an old man could want. 😉
Soundminded.
You certainly have the collection to compare, then! I can't imagine that all your vinyl is in bad shape, quite the contrary. But if the vinyl flaws bother you more than the CD flaws, then I understand. For me it is often the opposite. And it goes a long way toward "sounds better to me." Even if the medium (whatever it is) is 99% perfect but that 1% drives you nuts, you'll tend to say the whole thing is flawed. Be it vinyl, CD, cassette or MP3.
TerryO belongs to the Puget Sound! group in Seattle. An audio group like most others. They have some great get togethers. They had a recent one that was vinyl themed, or digital vs vinyl, I'll have to ask Terry.
But heck, I wouldn't mind going to a vinyl listening club. Beer, whiskey, good music. It's about all an old man could want. 😉
Soundminded.
You certainly have the collection to compare, then! I can't imagine that all your vinyl is in bad shape, quite the contrary. But if the vinyl flaws bother you more than the CD flaws, then I understand. For me it is often the opposite. And it goes a long way toward "sounds better to me." Even if the medium (whatever it is) is 99% perfect but that 1% drives you nuts, you'll tend to say the whole thing is flawed. Be it vinyl, CD, cassette or MP3.
Pano, it did have a bit to do with what you said.
You suggested that if CDs were all made by ourselves from cherished analogue sources there would be "no debate", but it's only because we buy them, and they're not always well produced, that there is a debate at all. That is, the format may be technically superior, but the user experience, isn't. Or at least that's how I read it.
I am suggesting that you could therefore abandon your collection of Philips 2000 cassettes.. I mean vinyl LPs, if you would just transfer them all to CD.
A logical interpretation?
Scientific data!!
Not when the listening test is controlled properly! of course that is why you posted the word "subjective" isnt it...its to side step accurate real testing.
Please feel free to post the links to real accurate tests showing it to be superior. Subjective opinion without the proper testing controls is completely useless so please do not post a link to the thousands and thousands of those that exist.
That brings up a question. One reason (probably the major reason) I haven't transferred my vinyl to digital files on my hard disk is that it can't be done like ripping CDs- it's not set-and-forget, level setting must be done record by record, and it must be done in real time. I've done this with a couple of records, mostly to prove to myself that I can't hear the difference between vinyl play direct and vinyl play that's been through A/D and D/A, but it was slow and clunky.
Could the process be sped up by playing the records at a higher speed, then restoring the original frequencies in software? To not lose bandwidth, I'd have to do this at 192k, but in theory, I could reduce the transfer time by half. The only issue I see is that the cartridge tip resonance would be similarly folded downward, but the cartridge I'm using now doesn't have an ultrasonic peak. Anyone actually try this?
Could the process be sped up by playing the records at a higher speed, then restoring the original frequencies in software? To not lose bandwidth, I'd have to do this at 192k, but in theory, I could reduce the transfer time by half. The only issue I see is that the cartridge tip resonance would be similarly folded downward, but the cartridge I'm using now doesn't have an ultrasonic peak. Anyone actually try this?
LOL... 🙂
Do you do any listening Doug, have you ever been exposed to what we speak? What about links to the "scientific testing " of Popeye's vs Kentucky Chicken..... 🙄
Sound , would you mind listing your playback system and what about analog
puts it behind digital IYO.. ( subjectively)
It's my understanding that 24/192 is the min requirement to capture the full bandwidth of analog recordings..
That was the exact point of the over the top post.... it was absurd as someone posting claiming they are a real music lover while others are not....The medium used has zero to do with who loves music and who deos not.
Yeah, you kind of prove my point again. 😉
We all can choose what we like, Kings of Leon, Train, Foo fighters are my current playlists. Some good old 80s rock is another one. CSN and Neil Young along with other 70s greats on another one.
If you hate them all and want to post about it so be it (it continues to prove my point). Last I checked Im not playing music for you, never would want too since everyone I have met like you guys are just too weird for the real world so all is good.
^^^ I have never heard a recording from Nyquist-Shannon..😛
Also bandlimiting is not applicable because it is impossible to generate a true bandlimited signal in any real-world situation, a bandlimited signal require infinite time to transmit and since all real-world signals are, by necessity, timelimited, then they cannot be bandlimited.
Hence the 192 Khz sampling as the suggested required min to capture realtime , you can hear the difference Sy, when capturing in 44 vs 192 ..
regards,
Also bandlimiting is not applicable because it is impossible to generate a true bandlimited signal in any real-world situation, a bandlimited signal require infinite time to transmit and since all real-world signals are, by necessity, timelimited, then they cannot be bandlimited.
Hence the 192 Khz sampling as the suggested required min to capture realtime , you can hear the difference Sy, when capturing in 44 vs 192 ..
regards,
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I don't know SY. High speed transfers are fraught with problems. Although yours would just be double speed.
Agreed about the hassle of set up, that's the recording biz! If your sound card is good enough (I think yours is) you might find a level that is just above max peak of most records and record in 24 bit. Most DAW and wave editors can then work in 32 bits or better to do volume leveling and reduction to 44.1K/16bit. A mild pop filter can give you more headroom when doing volume adjustments..
Not hard to test, but time consuming. I'd love to know the results of your tests.
Agreed about the hassle of set up, that's the recording biz! If your sound card is good enough (I think yours is) you might find a level that is just above max peak of most records and record in 24 bit. Most DAW and wave editors can then work in 32 bits or better to do volume leveling and reduction to 44.1K/16bit. A mild pop filter can give you more headroom when doing volume adjustments..
Not hard to test, but time consuming. I'd love to know the results of your tests.
Double-speed playback may be "theoretically" doable, but I wouldn't do it on any stylus or LP I don't want to damage. This doubles the stylus velocity, both vertically and linearly along the groove, and I have no doubt does bad things with even the best cartridge and stylus, and I very much doubt the reproduced sound would be as good as real-time playback.
If anything, the existence of "Half Speed Mastering" LP's suggests that playback at half speed (16 2/3 RPM) may be a sonic be an improvement over real-time playback, then play the digital recording at double speed (just change the file header info so it plays back at double the recorded speed). One might want to add mass to the arm to lower the arm-compliance resonance, as the de-facto standard of 10Hz might be too high at half speed. Has anyone done this? It seems the main hurdle is finding a good quality turntable that runs at 16 2/3.
"Excessive high frequency material is the Achilles' heel of record cutting.
In a (very small and incomplete) nutshell, when an especially intense burst of high frequency information is encountered by a playback stylus, it can actually end up making the needle begin to just bump up over the grooves, which is heard as distortion. Bursts of high-frequency material often have this problem. For this reason, one of the more common corrective processes in vinyl mastering is the use of the de-esser (also called a high-frequency limiter)."
"...Excessive vertical motion makes for a groove that can be difficult for many turntables to track during playback and is usually compensated for for in a couple of different ways. One is the use of an elliptical equalizer, which uses an adjustable frequency, below which all frequencies (the bass material) are summed together into mono. This takes care of vertical groove cutting problems, but may do things to the program material that were not intended or desired"
If what we hear about the problems with needle always being on the edge of skipping are true, it sounds as though you would need a stylus at higher pressure would you not? Sounds like a recipe for wearing your records out pretty quickly, too.
And anyway, personally, I may be a bit of a scientist and a bit sceptical about audio gimmicks, but I could never be happy listening to transfers that I knew were less than 'optimal'...
Because the speed is faster, but the frequencies are no higher. It is well known that LPs sound worse at the end of each side than at the start, because the linear speed is slower.
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