Do you still use the 680nf 450v Auricaps on the outputs of your UCD's Roger?
I just realised the polypropylenes Chris use are from Digikey so they may be a bit of a problem for me to order, I can get the 0.47uf or 0.68uf Auricaps easier if they are not to big
How did you mount these underneath the pcb to keep the leads short
I just realised the polypropylenes Chris use are from Digikey so they may be a bit of a problem for me to order, I can get the 0.47uf or 0.68uf Auricaps easier if they are not to big
How did you mount these underneath the pcb to keep the leads short
The only problem with the Auricaps is as far as I know the axial construction. I know they have an excellent reputation for sound, but if it's going to increase EMI to audible levels, you've taken a step backwards.
Does digikey not deal in the UK? I'm sure you could dig up the same cap elsewhere if required. 1% tolerance! Lead lenth isn't more than a 1mm on either side and it doesn't stand off from the board more than 1mm either. EMI is inaudible.
I'm not here trying to push a product, just get the best possible sound, but when there's an auricap that's right for the job sure I'll give it a go.
Best Regards,
Chris
Does digikey not deal in the UK? I'm sure you could dig up the same cap elsewhere if required. 1% tolerance! Lead lenth isn't more than a 1mm on either side and it doesn't stand off from the board more than 1mm either. EMI is inaudible.
I'm not here trying to push a product, just get the best possible sound, but when there's an auricap that's right for the job sure I'll give it a go.
Best Regards,
Chris
classd4sure said:
Chris, I always appreciate any advice😉
I don't think there is a Digikey in the UK, I like to order things locally if possible, we get hammered by import duty etc too
I'll have another look on Farnell and RS etc but the only polypropylenes I could find was high voltage and physically larger than even the Auricaps
t. said:
T,
The Auricap's do have the lead length problem but mounting them as close as possible to the board does minimize it. My fussy customer has experienced no problems with this change. If your configuration is inside a metal case it too will be fine. I connect the outside foil lead on the bottom of the output ground lug and the inside foil to the inductor pins directly. The only other real problem they have is cost but considering how good they are it is reasonable.
Chris,
You have only gotten a taste of how a good output cap sounds. With proper tight construction in a cylindrical format it is a whole other ball game. The squashed caps with steel leads really aren't in the same league even though they are far better than the originals.
Roger
Thanks Roger!
I don't mind paying a bit more for the caps if they are worth it
I'm looking forward to trying this mod out🙂
After giving the 470uf BC136 decoupling caps just over 24hrs burn in I still think it sounds mechanical, I'll leave it running tonight and listen again tomorrow, if its still the same I'm taking them out
I'll get the Panasonic FC's ordered to try next, anybody have any suggestions what other types are worth trying
I don't mind paying a bit more for the caps if they are worth it
I'm looking forward to trying this mod out🙂
After giving the 470uf BC136 decoupling caps just over 24hrs burn in I still think it sounds mechanical, I'll leave it running tonight and listen again tomorrow, if its still the same I'm taking them out
I'll get the Panasonic FC's ordered to try next, anybody have any suggestions what other types are worth trying
Hi Roger,
As you can see I didn't select the first cheap cap I found, I need search no further. I'm very happy with it. I have to say the "my fussy customer" thing is a little cliche? I know what sound I like and EMI isn't a part of that.
My modules are still open air /sans case and the AM radio works just fine right beside it.
You have to keep in mind radiated EMI, while can be contained to a certain extent within a chassis, doesn't help the fact that you're placing what's essentially a transmission antenna on the signal side of the PCB.
Perhaps your fussy customer was just overly dazzled to see he had himself an auricap to impress his friends with?
What kind of tolerance do your auricaps have? Do you still really think they'll be making a drop in replacement? It's been a looong time... There should be some sort of concrete information available on it by now..
Anyway I've no affiliation with Panasonic or their caps I just think it's a smarter choice towards the best sound possible given the available alternatives. My ears happen to agree.
Regards,
Chris
As you can see I didn't select the first cheap cap I found, I need search no further. I'm very happy with it. I have to say the "my fussy customer" thing is a little cliche? I know what sound I like and EMI isn't a part of that.
My modules are still open air /sans case and the AM radio works just fine right beside it.
You have to keep in mind radiated EMI, while can be contained to a certain extent within a chassis, doesn't help the fact that you're placing what's essentially a transmission antenna on the signal side of the PCB.
Perhaps your fussy customer was just overly dazzled to see he had himself an auricap to impress his friends with?
What kind of tolerance do your auricaps have? Do you still really think they'll be making a drop in replacement? It's been a looong time... There should be some sort of concrete information available on it by now..
Anyway I've no affiliation with Panasonic or their caps I just think it's a smarter choice towards the best sound possible given the available alternatives. My ears happen to agree.
Regards,
Chris
Hey Chris, If you have the AD8620 in the front end, try it without the decoupling caps and then see what you think? Try it on 1 module, and let me know. If you have the 2134, then don't do it. The offset voltage will be to high.
Ray
Ray
Well, I can understand that. I don't remember your setup, but if it has the AD8620, it would only take just a few to tack a wire across one of those caps. I'm curious as to the sound without the caps. This is on the imput? You're using Auricaps on the imptus? Well, it's worth a listen. I wish there was a way to reply to each person as oppossed to one big reply to all.
Ray
Ray
Hi Ray,
I fail to see why you're asking me to try this, if you're the curious one? I base my decisions on the physics of it all and not manufacturer hersay
I did swap to the AD8620BRZ op amps, removed and jumpered the AC coupling caps, pre amp is an 1820M sound card /audiodock, with balanced outputs free of DC offset.
I run the modules DC coupled, fully balanced, through microphone cable.
Supply consists of a Plitron 500VA toroid with mu-metal shielding and a static shield between primary and secondary.
Rectifiers are IXYS 68amp 600V FRED eco pack, one per secondary, fully floating.
Caps are Jensen T-networks, 63Vdc with two 15 000uF in parallel per rail.
Modules are wired bi-phase for better supply sharing.
Changed 470uF decoupling caps to Panasonic FC 63Vdc 820uF, boostrap cap to 25V 220uF Panasonic FM, Filter cap to 470nF panasonic 50V 1% tolerance flim & polypropylene #ECQ-P1H474FZW.
Remaining mods are CRD's to be done this week.
Auxiliary supply's for input stage, to be done when ever.
If you're curious as to how good it can be made to sound I strongly recommend you do your own research, and attempt it yourself first hand once you've acquired an understanding.
In the meantime you might hold back your advice on what others should be trying, certainly in order to satisfy your own curiosity, at least until you know what a flux-auricap for dc coupling is 🙂
Best Regards,
Chris
I fail to see why you're asking me to try this, if you're the curious one? I base my decisions on the physics of it all and not manufacturer hersay
I did swap to the AD8620BRZ op amps, removed and jumpered the AC coupling caps, pre amp is an 1820M sound card /audiodock, with balanced outputs free of DC offset.
I run the modules DC coupled, fully balanced, through microphone cable.
Supply consists of a Plitron 500VA toroid with mu-metal shielding and a static shield between primary and secondary.
Rectifiers are IXYS 68amp 600V FRED eco pack, one per secondary, fully floating.
Caps are Jensen T-networks, 63Vdc with two 15 000uF in parallel per rail.
Modules are wired bi-phase for better supply sharing.
Changed 470uF decoupling caps to Panasonic FC 63Vdc 820uF, boostrap cap to 25V 220uF Panasonic FM, Filter cap to 470nF panasonic 50V 1% tolerance flim & polypropylene #ECQ-P1H474FZW.
Remaining mods are CRD's to be done this week.
Auxiliary supply's for input stage, to be done when ever.
If you're curious as to how good it can be made to sound I strongly recommend you do your own research, and attempt it yourself first hand once you've acquired an understanding.
In the meantime you might hold back your advice on what others should be trying, certainly in order to satisfy your own curiosity, at least until you know what a flux-auricap for dc coupling is 🙂
Best Regards,
Chris
Hi Chris, Well, now, a little sharp here. It isn't just for my own curiousity. Everyone who has some brains in this hobby knows that a cap does have some influence of its own on the sound of equipment especially in key places. Since you have no DC offset in your setup, you actually are a prime candidate for this little experiment. Before you decide to chew me out any further, this is DIY and not a manufacturer forum. Your sharpness is not warranted.
It seems to me that if you don't have the caps in there in the first place, it would sound even better. Yes, Chris, I am aware of the purpose of what the caps are supposed to do. . Probably in most systems, the caps would be a necessary item to protect against any DC offset from possibly reaching your speakers. .
Now as to this flux auricap, I admit I don't know anything about them. Why don't you educate me about them. I know auricap is working on a cap for the outputs, but that has not come about yet. So what is the big deal with these particular caps?
Ray
It seems to me that if you don't have the caps in there in the first place, it would sound even better. Yes, Chris, I am aware of the purpose of what the caps are supposed to do. . Probably in most systems, the caps would be a necessary item to protect against any DC offset from possibly reaching your speakers. .
Now as to this flux auricap, I admit I don't know anything about them. Why don't you educate me about them. I know auricap is working on a cap for the outputs, but that has not come about yet. So what is the big deal with these particular caps?
Ray
Flux Auricap
Ray,
Flux capacitor from the movie "Back to the future" remember? There aint no such animal, what he is saying is he has a nonexistent cap, as in they are jumpered out.
Roger
Ray,
Flux capacitor from the movie "Back to the future" remember? There aint no such animal, what he is saying is he has a nonexistent cap, as in they are jumpered out.
Roger
Re: Flux Auricap
Flux cap for DC coupling...Yeap, sounds just like a straight piece of wire. Patent pending
Sorry Ray but I tried telling you a few times that I already removed the coupling caps.
I also posted about the comparison between the two awhile back, an electrolytic is not the thing to use at all for AC coupling because they require alot of DC bias across them in order to stand any chance of sounding even remotely "stable". Best to use a film cap of good quality (like Auricap) if you have to AC couple, but ideally you'd have no caps, because a straight piece of wire is superior to any cap.
Also you can DC couple with the OPA2134 if your source has low enough DC offset, less than ~1.2mV DC. It is the NE5532 which has too much offset to allow DC coupling.
Regards,
Chris
Flux cap for DC coupling...Yeap, sounds just like a straight piece of wire. Patent pending
Sorry Ray but I tried telling you a few times that I already removed the coupling caps.
I also posted about the comparison between the two awhile back, an electrolytic is not the thing to use at all for AC coupling because they require alot of DC bias across them in order to stand any chance of sounding even remotely "stable". Best to use a film cap of good quality (like Auricap) if you have to AC couple, but ideally you'd have no caps, because a straight piece of wire is superior to any cap.
Also you can DC couple with the OPA2134 if your source has low enough DC offset, less than ~1.2mV DC. It is the NE5532 which has too much offset to allow DC coupling.
Regards,
Chris
Duh. Actually, I have read the thread, but since it had gotten so big, I have forgotten a lot that was on here. I walked right in to that one with both blinders on. I remembered that flux cap stuff, but thought there might really be some new fangled cap out there using the Flux crap.
Are those Jensens the 4 pole type. I don't know much about them, but have heard the Jensens are really the thing for power supplies. Yep, you did try to tell me, but for some reason or other, it just fell to register. How much do you figure you got invested in the cap upgrades, including the Jensens?
Ray
Are those Jensens the 4 pole type. I don't know much about them, but have heard the Jensens are really the thing for power supplies. Yep, you did try to tell me, but for some reason or other, it just fell to register. How much do you figure you got invested in the cap upgrades, including the Jensens?
Ray
classd4sure said:
Hi Chris,
Very interesting update, could you post a picture?
I looked at the datasheet that you were so kind to provide. They also have a 100V version that is only 2.5mm longer. Should be good for UcD400 users.
Why not mount it at the bottom of the PCB, would be easy to place it there without any hacking of FASTON connecters etc.
Thanks for the tip.
Gertjan
ghemink said:
Hi,
I think the 100V cap is not available in the some tolerance, but sure it would still be good to try.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but I did indeed mount it on the bottom of the PCB, I trimmed the solder legs of the Fast On connectors on the bottom side so that I could mount it as close as possible. One leg is in the original cap's location while the other soldered to the far pin of the Fast On connector for the speaker terminal's ground. The caps don't stand off the board more than a mm and the length of the legs virtually not visible.
EMI has increased, now noticeable on the AM radio, very slightly, but doesn't blank out any stations at all, and it doesn't seem to be audible on the amps themselves.
I'll try and get a picture but have to borrow the camera so it won't be for awhile.
Regards,
Chris
classd4sure said:
Hi Chris,
OK, I see, it looked almost impossible to mount it on the top of the PCB.
Gertjan
maxlorenz said:Andy:
That's the way to go, IMHO
If someone wants to get R-core Tx for the front end, I found a place: diyclub.biz
US$15 for one 50VA Tx. From HongKong, I'm affraid.
Off topic:
Next week I will populate my M-audio superDAC with more ALWSR's 😎
("BTS" mod, He-he 😀 I won't tell my lady)
Good luck!
M
Which version of the 50w R-core did you go for? I am assuming we are shooting for a 12-0-12 regulated supply for the front end.
Hi JoshK:
For 12-0-12 I would choose R26-93--> primary🙁0-115) X2 /SCN secondary:0-9 X2(2A) + 0-8 (1.7A) (that's the one I picked for my DAC).
http://eshop.diyclub.biz/product_info.php?cPath=152_74&products_id=55
For ALWSR it seams you have to go for higher V.
Plus 2.5VDC before the reg, if I recall well. Let me check.
I don't plan to do it in the next future: to many projects.
Please post results if you do it 😉
Regards
Mauricio.
Oops, an emoticon intruded 😀
For 12-0-12 I would choose R26-93--> primary🙁0-115) X2 /SCN secondary:0-9 X2(2A) + 0-8 (1.7A) (that's the one I picked for my DAC).
http://eshop.diyclub.biz/product_info.php?cPath=152_74&products_id=55
For ALWSR it seams you have to go for higher V.
Plus 2.5VDC before the reg, if I recall well. Let me check.
I don't plan to do it in the next future: to many projects.
Please post results if you do it 😉
Regards
Mauricio.
Oops, an emoticon intruded 😀
I replaced the .68ufd filter cap's on my boards today with very positive results and thought I would share how I did it. I used two .33ufd/100v Wima MKP cap's in parallel to make a .66ufd cap, which I was able to mount on the topside of the board. I did this by first removing the original cap, then the LED (which I then mounted on the bottom side of the board). Next I desolderd the first pin on the transformer and cut away the plastic holding the pin with some sharp point wire cutters. The plastic is easy to cut. Next I took one of the new cap's and filed the bottom of the cap into a V shape. This allows the cap to be flush mounted at an angle next to the unmodified first cap. As a note my boards have both the 5 and 7 mm mounting holes. I then soldered the filed cap into the holes from the removed transformer pin and the outer hole for the original cap. Next I was able to mount an unmodified cap in the inner two holes of the original cap. With a little work both caps can be mounted flush to the ground plane. Also the modified cap needs to be filed down on the upper corner on the transformer side to help squeeze it into place. When filing the case of the cap you need to go fairly slow and check it often so you don't file into the cap itself. I purchased the Wima's from Mouser P/N505-MKP20.33/100/5. I wasn't expecting much improvement from this Mod but I must confess I'm really blown away at the difference it made. Hope this helps.
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