Hot glue to repair Magnepans?

[Soldermizer]

I am a long time (> 10 years) owner of Magnepans. I curently have had a pair of 1.6 QR for about 8 years. Has not been used about for two years. To no one's surprise, these have had the de-lamination problem. Past repairs were using the Weldwood contact cement suggested on Audio Asylum. It works ok. The problem keeps recurring. I am too lazy and/or don't trust myself enough to do a complete clean-up and re-glue the wires. has anyone ever tried hot glue for the wires? I looked on AA and not much mention of this. I would consider doing it after I'm done with classes (another month). In part I ask because I've become quite the afficionado of the hot glue gun for repairs and wonder if I dare try it with expensive speakers

If nothing else seems it would be harmless to try in a small area and see (hear) how it works -- or doesn't --

 

[studiotech]

I wonder if the initial heat of the glue as it flows onto the diaphragm would melt or deform the mylar?

I am having visions right now of my father fixing completely inappropriate things with the hot glue gun. He loves to use hot glue more than anything else around the house.

Greg

 

[ktuuri]

Don't try it, it will melt the Mylar. I have melted Mylar with a heat gun on low setting.
Hot glue would be asking for trouble. Just my opinion

 

[tyu]

Real trick to geting the Weldwood or 3M77 to hold better an not let go... is after it setup for a day are two.....you come back with a can of spray paint...just put on a lite coate... all over the driver if it gummy... i keep the spray a way from the tweeters.. with the foil it stays down well....the wire well move some times...the tweeter wire will not pull up...in most cases
The spray pant has drires in it .....thay well pull the mostures out... works great.. i have old 25-30 years old maggys ... i have done this with...when i got the speakers you could move the base wire on the mylar... after a lite coate of the spray paint... dryes them out... after 5-6 more years there still like new ..


Never did any hot glue... There your speakers! ...let us know how it works???..

Its
only $6-800.+Shiping to get them re-wired at Magnepan.........Good luck
..

 

[Soldermizer]

To clarify: as far as I know, it is only the "bass" (wires) that ever have loosened. No problems with the foil tweeters to my knowledge. The concern about melting the Mylar is a valid one. Where can one get a sample piece of Mylar? This would be good to test that it won't melt after hot-glued and also, will a piece of wire adhere to it?

 

[kevinahcc20]

Mylar has a melting point of 254 degrees C and begins significant loss of dimensional stability at 150 degrees C. Typical hot melt glue guns dispense at about 180 degrees C. I wouldn't use it for a couple reasons...risk of loosing tension in mylar, adds significant mass, and hot melts are not great adhesives for smooth surfaces like mylar film. YMMV!

 

[tyu]

Magnepan uses a heat gun to get the mylar set right befor the wire-foil added...so the hot gule.. its going to pull the mylar some....how much is the deal...?? cant say
I have cleaned the Mylar miny times...it not that hard.. eze fix....an speakers can be like new..
but i can dig your point..you know your limets....i well put hot glue on a old panel i have here.
good luck

 

[tyu]

I am Saying DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK! IT is What It Is..

This is 30year old Magnepan Stock Mylar!...Off A pr Of Smg.....
I put the QR foil you see... as a test 4 years Ago....Foil Give Less output than wire!
I have KNOW WAY OF NOing what magnepans MYlar is to day!

Pic 1....Old Mylar...
Pic 2.....HotGlue 40 watt gunn...on 5min....
Pic 3 Back of Mylar..
...You Own your own from here...

Looks to me like it did not pull much...if i were doing this...AN I AM NOT!
It well add wate to the Mylar...but it at the ends SO...Big So...

I would not go strat from the glue gunn..
I would put the glue on something an then put on the wire....there Maggys...

Remimber.....................$6-800. +SHIPING FOR RE-dO,s From Magnepan at lest...
Good luck

 

[Soldermizer]

Another way to melt Maggies (maybe)

Hmm, consensus so far is "be careful." Rather than melt my mostly-ok Maggies, does anyone know where I can get a piece of similar Mylar to experiment upon? That would be a great DIY thing ... maybe find the magic adhesive combo that works best? For dolts like me, I can try hot-glueing a piece of wire to the Mylar and see how it works.
For future repairs I may try the 12V car battery method (to get the wire to stick to the Mylar) ... I have read about that, it makes sense, just need an excuse to hook it up. Can the bass panel dissipate (let's see power = v^2/R) so (12*12)/4 = 36 watts? I can do the "finger test" I guess

 

[studiotech]

You know, it's funny. Every time I see the insides of a Maggie, I think "My god, they have been making them for so many years and they still look so homemade!" I'd have assumed by now that the "wires" would have been etched or deposited into the mylar like pretty much all other planar manufactures. I did not realize that even the QR tweeter was glued into the mylar. This cannot be good for unit to unit precision or many of us having dealt with delamination. That's what put an end to my Maggies making music. The delam annoyed me enough that I went back to the DIY route. I still got planar mids thanks to BG!

 

[Soldermizer]

Perhaps the glued to the plastic is their patent

Who is BG?

 

[tyu]

You know, it's funny. Every time I see the insides of a Maggie, I think "My god, they have been making them for so many years and they still look so homemade!" I'd have assumed by now that the "wires" would have been etched or deposited into the mylar like pretty much all other planar manufactures. I did not realize that even the QR tweeter was glued into the mylar. This cannot be good for unit to unit precision or many of us having dealt with delamination. That's what put an end to my Maggies making music. The delam annoyed me enough that I went back to the DIY route. I still got planar mids thanks to BG!

You are Right it,s Funny!
It is Like a diy setup at Magnepan, Just how it looks....Hand Made In The USA.
People like that A LOT!
An well pay big $$$.... All over the world For it!
Look there still here,.in the Audio Bizz...AN the MG20.7 gets what $13-4K US.

Most dONT get how it work in the Audio bizz..
I work in the Audio bizz in the 1980s-90...
Co. like Magnepan Did things a littel diff..on the $14k thay keep like $7-8k..
Good for them..Thats one reson why there still here..other Great Sounding Speakers for the $$$...
MagnepanS Are just that good.. So if it Works GOOD...Dont FiX it!
An thay were like Mcintosh only one store per City...Some time one store per State!...Some time not even all states......
I for one Have found Falts with there Speakers....
But i have 6 pr Here in my home toDay!... An when i die there be a pr around with my name on them...Right NEXT to my Acoustats....An Apogees...

..
Someone like Bob Carver Co. an most All others that sold Speakers had a Sales Reps...Minny!......
That got as much $$$ as Bob Did are more..
An Bob made the Speaker,Amp,or what ever...
So if thay made a speaker like the ribbon type AL3...it list was in 1990s $2k.US....Bob only got $400. of that maybe..store front got the speakers for a $1k....Bob had to bilded,box,ship,for half with the rep...so the rep got $500. Bob an others got what was left...so it tuff bizz...Bob Had More Stores fronts...Bob is doing things diff to day...HE sales most of his tube amps himself.......
This is All Just one Panels lovers thoughts...tHERE a LOT OF fun..Have some FUN
Long LIve Acoustats...Apogees........An Magnepan.

 

[studiotech]

TYU, did you know that Emotiva/Jade Designs just announced that they purchased Bob Carver/The Tube Amp company? Bob is staying on as "mad scientist" while Emotiva will take over business operations.

Soldermizer, BG is Bohlender Graebener makers of planar drivers like the Neo3, 8 and 10 as well as the RD series. Btw, love your username!

Greg

 

[tyu]

Well there goes Bob...
He know how to make $$$$$ the big stuff....
This can only mean one thing ..
.He well be comeing out with something new ...
Some thing...maybe more Sand amps..The size an wate of a small bottel of water!
That Runs off the SUN?
IF Bob has sold...the names all thay well get.. An that a neff.....
An if what your say is true...An that a done deal.
I cant wate for the new ?????...Bob is like us Diyners Nuts Most of the time....some all the time..hehe
Till the litestar/SunFire i could not go altheway with Bob... but after owning all i can get my hands on for 30years...TOO Me there is an never has been A better Sand Amp made....
If Bob never did anymore ..An that NOt going to happen
.The Sunfire amps would be a nuf for ever...well for me....but he got someing in mind...thanks for the info

 

[studiotech]

According to the news, Bob is STAYING to just be an inventor/developer of new products. So they get the name AND the guy! He's got new subs and other amps in the pipeline. Apparently he had worked with the Emotiva guys on some OEM projects for them and they all got along, so it was a mutual agreement. Just listened to the announcement a few days ago on their monthly webcast.

And I agree, the Carver Lightstar and Sunfire amps were special.

Greg

 

[Soldermizer]

I too am an old fan of Carver. I'm old enough to have bought one of his items new (the M400 mid-1980s). Tried a Sunfire amp and woofer, they were ok. Recently downgraded (or updated) to high-tech, low-cost, high-power Behringer iNukes. Can't wait to learn what Dr. Bob cooks up next

 

[tyu]

Not to get off topic.....Forgive the Carver talk....

This is What Has to be said that Bobs there for all the good things....But Not much ever comes...so if the team get more from Bob..Amps,Speaker what ever ...it what thay already paid for....his dreams are His...only thing he did after the Craver Co. sold.. was the litestar...less than a year he had the sunfire...litestar dropet.....Carver co died like all the others,he make big $$$ of the Sundire sub Amps... that Most all are using with there name on...like MCintosh an others....Hell Niles is still making the Sunfire amps Bob sold them Sunfire ...the $$$ Dropet like a rock...at frist when Bob was there price held..hehe..but then Amps pice cut in 1/2 over night.
It all Gooooooooood For us ...Thanks for your time an info...Have fun with Audio ..Bob is..
Bob carver An N. Pass Care about us Diyers...Were All luck...

 

[Slymcfly001]

I have my dads old MGIIc magneplanars. They were starting to give a decent little "Thwack" on bass notes, assuming the wires slapping against the Mylar. I removed the socks and found a few "Banana Peels", and noticed some lift in a few spots along the bass/mid area, tweeter area was fine. Went to the hardware store purchased the Acetone for removing the old glue, some large stainless steel washers (for holding the clean bare wires in place), and Weldwood. After removing the old glue from the Mylar, I carefully stretched the wires over the Mylar aligning with the original layout. Used the metal washers to hold in place as they are held by the magnets which actually was really helpful. Then I starting with a only a little bit of weldwood at a time on some spots. but ended up using an old paint brush and brushing nice thin even coats over the back. being careful not to glue the washers to the wires I carefully moved them a bit every 10-15 minutes or so. did not lift from the magnetic hold but more skimmed them along the wires in the same direction (skating down them). once the glue started to get a solid hold I would carefully jump the washers over to the next sets of wires and "skated" my way down those. left the ones holding the ends down in place and added more glue to those areas to help prevent the banana peel. they kept creeping back up on me so I just left the washers in place. I have pics of the progress and a video not sure how to upload images on here though.. I will have to dig up my old photobucket account so I can put in the links to the images.

Waited a day or two, and gave them some tunes. they sounded really great actually. I had previously played a song "Fears" by MTNS.. great tune.. Has some really deep low bass on it. anyways when I played it on these the first time they started to vibrate and buzz on the bass hits. once i let them dry afterwards I played the same tune at around the same volume and nothing but solid midrange and deep bass!! I gave it some more gas and they still held up really well!

I have since, turn up the music loud enough to get a thud and quickly turned the bass down but that would be the same idea of a compression driver being driven a little too hard.

These produce quality mid and low, impressive highs.. very impressive actually.

All depends on the room placement, what your driving them with (I am driving mine with a Hafler DH500).. High current, 255wpc and the ability to drive the 6 ohms to 4 ohms now problem. I have read they are called "amp killers"

Nonetheless, I can honestly say I am a fan of electrostatic, planar / ribbon speakers now.

 

[tyu]

As for the wire reglueing......I put a then coat of spray paint on over the mylar -wire...the dryers in the paint get rit of the tacky gluey...I done more than one pr....when maggys start making noise flokes get rit for low cash......I gave $30 for my MG 2cs...$10 for my MG1c

I have the MG 2.5r... MG2c an the MG1c..the 1c are the best sounding of the all wire type I have had......sound just like a SMGa with bass......I think the 1c an the SMGa sound so good is because thay only have one button.... to tune the mylar.........an run them with dynaco MK3s....sound great but do get bass slap out of one 2c....I have 3ea of TransNova Haflers p7000......over 300 watts...but the 60 tube watt dose great job.....
amp eaters...I seen that also..must be in a small room.....
has anyone got the panels slap fix??

 

[RogerGustavsson]

You know, it's funny. Every time I see the insides of a Maggie, I think "My god, they have been making them for so many years and they still look so homemade!" I'd have assumed by now that the "wires" would have been etched or deposited into the mylar like pretty much all other planar manufactures.

As far as I know, aluminimized Mylar is not available with that thick aluminium that the bass foil uses.