panomaniac said:
You also have to question. Don't take experince as golden, it can be a bad experince. You have to learn to look for good data and to throw out the bad data. All data is not good data just as all experince is not good experience. There is very little "conventional wisdom" in audio that I use and almost noen that I trust.
panomaniac said:
Its not hard - look for consistancy of response. Why should an off axis response not be as flat as the on-axis response? The power response in a room is extremely important and much of what we hear is from off axis.
gedlee said:
Uh, yeah. Sorry. I was thinking about cone drivers for some reason. Pretty silly in a horn/waveguide thread!
FWIW, I built a pair of 8 sided Tractrix horns. Cut-off at ~500Hz. Nice sound, no real nasties - but they beam like crazy. Easy to see why some much work goes into CD horns.
ZilchLab said:
Absolutely. Eqing to a flat axial response would be a disaster.
I used to EQ to try and minimze this hole, but then it dawned on me - "why bother!" The axial response is virtually irrelavent, unless you sit on axis, but I don't recommend that as I have discussed so many times before. Since no one is ever on-axis in my setups why worry about it. As far as the power response goes the axial response is irrelavent.
Well, not within the first couple of feet of them, no.Magnetar said:So I suppose the poor fellow using the JBL horn can say he doesn't lay on the floor or stand above his speakers.
If we want plenty of artificial ambience and early reflections off the floor and ceiling, we use the symmetric 100° x 100° version.
It's rather simple geometry, actually, this controlled directivity thing.
Speaking of which, one might review Gedlee's paper recommending that the first reflection should come from the OPPOSITE sidewall, requiring that the speakers be toed-in in a normal listening environment, and placing them more on axis with the listener....
ZilchLab said:Well, not within a couple of feet of them, no.
If we want plenty of ambience and early reflections off the floor and ceiling, we use the 100� x 100� version.
It's rather simple geometry, actually.
Speaking of which, review Gedlee's paper recommending that the first reflection should come from the OPPOSITE sidewall, requiring that the speakers be toed-in in a normal listening environment....
The JBL horn was designed to do what it does. Different geometries for different applications.
If the Gedlee speakers are toed in like you say then they will most certainly be on axis most of the time if not all the time -The opposite of what gedlee just said - so which way is it?
Magnetar said:So I suppose the poor fellow using the JBL horn can say he doesn't lay on the floor or stand above his speakers.
The on-axis response for the ESP12 doesn't matter because it's such a tiny part of the soundfield radiated by the speaker... suppose the hole is there for a 5 degree cone... that's only .2% of the area sound is radiated into, and, approximating the soundfield by a 90 degree cone, that's about 1% of the radiated sound. However, the response of the JBL at say 45 degrees off axis is hugely important because it's a major part of the soundfield radiated by the horn.
FrankWW said:
I would say no, the idea is to have the response radiated at all angles, which constitutues the direct sound, early reflections, late reflections, and power response, which together determine the tonality of the system, flat and smooth. The direct sound, while important, is only part of the equation.
FrankWW said:
fizzard said:
Listening with extreme toe in sitting back tends to present other nasties - excessive cross talk (cancellations) between channels - yech
Tilting them back seems like a better solution as long as you don't stand up and listen.
Another thing you have to remember is the on axis energy is the highest (like most loudspeakers) and in this case the most non-linear.
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