I'll say it, you brought this upon yourselves. Nobody wants to pay the cost of skilled help but complains when things get screwed up. A contractors cost for skilled union carpenters is over $95 per hour in Chicago area. Add a reasonable markup to that and you get people who have in school and on the job training for 4 years. They understand how the various parts work together to make your home work the way it should. All that and you know that the people working on your house are paid a living wage, have health insurance and can retire with a bit of dignity when their bodies give out. Or, for a minor discount you can hire people somebody else picked up at the home depot, has no real training and gets paid sub par wages with no benefits. Then you can pay to fix everything they did later.
Well you have theee choices in the matter. You either pay MORE than the job is worth to get it done legitimately; buy the stuff yourself, hire out labor and take all the risk - and overall pay about what the job is worth; or do the job yourself and still take all the risk (but less potentially costly risk) to come out ahead financially. You can get your pants sued off or fall off a ladder and bust your *** - or the job simply doesn’t get done if the price tag is too high.
With my build I’m hiring out what I know I can’t do - or at least not in a reasonable timeframe. What I can do is going to be done by me. It will make the difference between a 600k project and somewhere around 1 mill. If I had waited another 5 years until I could afford a 1.5 mill turnkey (5 more years of inflation) we might not be around to ever see it. Thats worth taking some risk for.
You can also get electrocuted building amplifiers, or saw through your thumb making speakers. Or you can just buy everything in a store.
With my build I’m hiring out what I know I can’t do - or at least not in a reasonable timeframe. What I can do is going to be done by me. It will make the difference between a 600k project and somewhere around 1 mill. If I had waited another 5 years until I could afford a 1.5 mill turnkey (5 more years of inflation) we might not be around to ever see it. Thats worth taking some risk for.
You can also get electrocuted building amplifiers, or saw through your thumb making speakers. Or you can just buy everything in a store.
a little story: I had a licensed contractor doing a lot of indoor work, he had regular teams of guys/teams to do the work. for one job, a simple one, he hired some guys he doesn't usually work with.
they came without the proper tools and asked to borrow his. My contractor refused since any injury would be part his liability and his insurance wouldn't cover them fully. he had them leave the site and used his regulars to do the work.
they came without the proper tools and asked to borrow his. My contractor refused since any injury would be part his liability and his insurance wouldn't cover them fully. he had them leave the site and used his regulars to do the work.
What a job is worth is the matter at hand. If you can do it yourself and know how then by all means go for it. If you can't do it yourself then hire skilled help. In between those two options is the danger area. If you think you know what you are doing because you watched some home improvement shows you can't make option one work. What a job is worth when skilled help completes it is a matter of personal opinion. From my point of view a job is not "worth" what some guys who hop in the back of your truck at home depot would charge to do it. It is worth what a reasonable trained person would charge to do it. If you hire a company to do the work, expect to pay profit and overhead on top of what a reasonable trained person would charge to do the work.
As an aside, if you want to know what your future holds in the states where the attitude of screw labor prevails... Look no further than the south coast. Half of Florida ends up in the ocean every time there is hurricane. Bridges collapse on people while under construction because the guy from the home depot parking lot does not know you should never tension PT members while anyone let alone the public has access to the area. In Texas you don't even need a license to construct elevators, which is why they occasionally chop the people trying to use them in half. Don't even get me started on Louisiana, that last collapse was foreseeable by anyone who understands how the parts of a building work together to keep standing.
As an aside, if you want to know what your future holds in the states where the attitude of screw labor prevails... Look no further than the south coast. Half of Florida ends up in the ocean every time there is hurricane. Bridges collapse on people while under construction because the guy from the home depot parking lot does not know you should never tension PT members while anyone let alone the public has access to the area. In Texas you don't even need a license to construct elevators, which is why they occasionally chop the people trying to use them in half. Don't even get me started on Louisiana, that last collapse was foreseeable by anyone who understands how the parts of a building work together to keep standing.
Yes, I'm aware of all the issues and pitfalls.
The reason so many gray area businesses exist is because it's so expensive to run any kind of legitimate business. So much money goes directly to lawyers and government fees and licenses. My last "real" job (almost 20 years ago, time flies) had 25% of their employees as lawyers. They had a whole lot of lawyers there just waiting for a nibble. And those lawyers knew virtually nothing about the business; we had to explain every-frikkin-thing to them like they were in kindergarten, and then wait for them to tell us what to do. In spite of their extreme myopia, they were the Ones That Must Be Obeyed.
$95 an hour? No hate but a brother in the hood doesn't make $95 a day. If you went to many neighborhoods in Chicago, you'd think there were zero services available. Why? Because a business in that neighborhood will NEVER support a $95 an hour cost for ANY labor no matter how vital it is. It's beyond ludicrous. But, you can get your transmission swapped, in somebody's garage, for a fraction of what a shop charges. You can get your house repaired too, by Two Dudes in a Van.
It's like two different worlds, existing right next to each other. I understand the constraints that a legitimate business faces, especially in a place like Chicago. The situation with insurance and fees etc creates the grey economy. It must exist or else nothing will get done.
The reason so many gray area businesses exist is because it's so expensive to run any kind of legitimate business. So much money goes directly to lawyers and government fees and licenses. My last "real" job (almost 20 years ago, time flies) had 25% of their employees as lawyers. They had a whole lot of lawyers there just waiting for a nibble. And those lawyers knew virtually nothing about the business; we had to explain every-frikkin-thing to them like they were in kindergarten, and then wait for them to tell us what to do. In spite of their extreme myopia, they were the Ones That Must Be Obeyed.
$95 an hour? No hate but a brother in the hood doesn't make $95 a day. If you went to many neighborhoods in Chicago, you'd think there were zero services available. Why? Because a business in that neighborhood will NEVER support a $95 an hour cost for ANY labor no matter how vital it is. It's beyond ludicrous. But, you can get your transmission swapped, in somebody's garage, for a fraction of what a shop charges. You can get your house repaired too, by Two Dudes in a Van.
It's like two different worlds, existing right next to each other. I understand the constraints that a legitimate business faces, especially in a place like Chicago. The situation with insurance and fees etc creates the grey economy. It must exist or else nothing will get done.
I do know what can happen when unqualified people work on civil structures. I went to school for engineering. Many, many things have been done wrong and disaster was the result. What was the hotel where the walkway collapsed, because the construction contractor cut corners instead of following the blueprint, and the inspector missed it as well? Everything was legit from A to Z and yet two licensed professionals dropped the ball big time, and people died.
I see overseas where people add a second story to their house, and then a third story, and then... you know what happens. You can't get away with that stuff here at least.
I see overseas where people add a second story to their house, and then a third story, and then... you know what happens. You can't get away with that stuff here at least.
I've noticed some of the limb and joint aches and pains have diminished after a fairly sedentary winter, with this flooring project and now, the roof work. That chair in the maxell cassette tapes ad? That's the chair of death. At least when you're well into your 60's...
My knee was a constant source of pain. My feet ached with bunions. I walked through the pain for almost a year, when it started to diminish.
Now it's unbelievable how much the pain had subsided. I thought I was screwed with me knee.. thought I'd have to tough it out until I was ready for a replacement. Now it hardly bothers me, and my bunions are a quarter the size they used to be. I went from pre-gout to having a calcium and vitamin D deficiency that requires supplements. That's what two years of extreme dieting can do for you. Almost no meat or dairy = new body chemistry, amazing.
Now it's unbelievable how much the pain had subsided. I thought I was screwed with me knee.. thought I'd have to tough it out until I was ready for a replacement. Now it hardly bothers me, and my bunions are a quarter the size they used to be. I went from pre-gout to having a calcium and vitamin D deficiency that requires supplements. That's what two years of extreme dieting can do for you. Almost no meat or dairy = new body chemistry, amazing.
Ditto!
Same reasons for bursitis + golf and years of being pulled around by young horses for tendonitis in elbows and a wrist! Gets more painful 30 years on, and has stopped me from fly fishing. Tendonitis in ankle caused by being dragged with foot caught up in a stirrup having fallen off a horse and being dragged some 80-100 yards, when 18 years old.......now the reverse age - 81...and at last tendonitis is responding well to physio treatment.
Regarding houses I had very similar problems as the OP; these led to a massive battle due to lawyers not checking paperwork on a house I bought here in Scotland...They fought me when I claimed against them for the remedial costs of re-building x4 end walls; cost just over UK£40,000. Eventually their indemnity insurers had to pay over £90,000; including £50,000 litigation fees!!!
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I'm a Sole Proprietor. I have a legitimate registered business. I focus on private home owners in their primary residence. I do framing, drywall installation and finishing ready for paint and textured ceilings. It's all I've ever done for the past 35+ years. What am I worth? I have the right to charge and compete with any other outfit no matter how large or small. And I do. I have a Google page with all 5 star reviews, all legitimate as the "local guides" verify and I have plenty of those too. I'm not a reasonably trained guy looking for a side job. I turn down work constantly. These fly by nighters just don't get that it's easier to do a good job than to cheat. It's a simple formula, 3 ingredients: Be there when they need you, when you get there get the job done(in a reasonable time), and finally, do a good job. Put those three things together and it'll be coming out of your ears! Good news travels fast. 🙂
Hire a specialist. A plumber, a drywall fella, someone who does stucco. I won't hire a Jake of all trades. If I did I may as DIY.
We did our research and hired folks on word of mouth. The plumber we hired won't do drywall so we hired a drywall guy. He referred a fella who does stucco. Everything came out nice but it cost
We did our research and hired folks on word of mouth. The plumber we hired won't do drywall so we hired a drywall guy. He referred a fella who does stucco. Everything came out nice but it cost
My "LAD_R_ASSURE" effort "For when you need a little more assurance" on a skinny bottom one. So far, it hasnt tipped to the outside - not that I really yank on it either.
The main advice I give to customers when they ask for a referral for another trade is, "never ask for a referral from a tradesman", "Do your homework", "ask a friend..of a friend..of a friend, do your research and ask for references", "that will reduce the chance somebody's going to send his buddy there to take advantage of you". Just because I treated you well doesn't mean the guy I send will do the same when I'm not around. I've also just put my own reputation on the line. I've heard about and seen plenty of disasters surrounding that scenario. I do a lot of "rescue" jobs because of exactly this.
I hung a lot of drywall in my life. Mudded, sanded and painted it too. It came out excellent.
I am not a drywall specialist. A union drywall man can hang ten sheets in the time it takes me to hang one. That's the difference.
I've done a lot of residential wiring in my life. I've never been licensed or even took a class. I've done wiring on three houses on my block plus my own. Zero incidents or complaints. It's passed inspection. The local building inspector said he wishes I did ALL the wiring in Skokie. It's always been 100% correct down to the smallest detail.
If you have done it before, then you are now the general contractor and your job is to find and possibly have to train your hires to do the job properly.
In Ontario Canada you or the contractor are required by law to have workmans compensation insurance for anyone you hire working on your property.
Many in the trade do not have it or only get it when asked as they know the law and are trying to save a buck. Its the same as doing electrical, you are supposed to have a permit, and inspection by the ESA. You can get the permit as a homeowner but you are required to do the work and not hire it out. I just went thru this with putting in a new 200A service underground. When we put in the grounding pad it was me or the electrician, at $65/hr to dig the hole. I said go home and I'll dig the hole, same goes with doing all the rest of the grunt work. The elctrician did not want to use the old grounding rods, so disconnected them from the panel, put in the new grounding pad. I later hooked up the old grounding rods again, which I though were better than the small pad they use these days. The worst job is insulating the ceiling in the summer and I did it old school with batts, now they just blow in the stuff after the ceiling is in, but I saved a good $ getting a deal on the insulation enough to put up a pine ceiling instead of drywall 🙂 Lots to learn about working on homes.
In Ontario Canada you or the contractor are required by law to have workmans compensation insurance for anyone you hire working on your property.
Many in the trade do not have it or only get it when asked as they know the law and are trying to save a buck. Its the same as doing electrical, you are supposed to have a permit, and inspection by the ESA. You can get the permit as a homeowner but you are required to do the work and not hire it out. I just went thru this with putting in a new 200A service underground. When we put in the grounding pad it was me or the electrician, at $65/hr to dig the hole. I said go home and I'll dig the hole, same goes with doing all the rest of the grunt work. The elctrician did not want to use the old grounding rods, so disconnected them from the panel, put in the new grounding pad. I later hooked up the old grounding rods again, which I though were better than the small pad they use these days. The worst job is insulating the ceiling in the summer and I did it old school with batts, now they just blow in the stuff after the ceiling is in, but I saved a good $ getting a deal on the insulation enough to put up a pine ceiling instead of drywall 🙂 Lots to learn about working on homes.
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I have trained unskilled labor to do a job many times. I had an unskilled helper help me put up the sheathing and housewrap. I watched a couple tutorials on housewrap and I was an "instant expert." In fact, the whole job went very smoothly.
I watched a couple videos on siding installation. I could learn it, buy the tools, and hire unskilled labor but I want to get a guy that has experience and tools (NOT a big company) to install it for cash. I never wanted to tackle demolition and sheathing until I found out how much they were going to charge me. Then I became real interested. It's not a stretch of my skills; right in my wheelhouse as a matter of fact. But siding? I want someone with some know how in charge of that.
I'm going to take that walk right now and see if that guy is at that house. I can't believe how fast he did carpentry repairs and installed fascia, soffits, and housewrap; all with a makeshift scaffold and a hammer. How many guys still use a manual hammer? My arm was sore for two days after swinging it just one day.