high performance, low cost 5 inch 2-way

[42476]

I was experimenting with a new "office" size 2-way. I posted earlier in the MR16 Satori...

I am really impressed here with these inexpensive drivers and felt I should start a new thread to share.

I bought drivers on sale but even at full asking price these are a steal for the performance to price ratio. I spent less than $100 US on the mid woofers and tweeters (all 4!). I had plenty of boxes and crossover parts so here we go...

Mid woofer is the newer SB budget 13PFC

SB, SB13PFCR25-08 - Meniscus Audio

This has the round frame or basket as opposed to the original design with the odd shaped frame. The OEM FR shows that some improvements were incorporated into this newer version.

The tweeter is a "Vifa" silk dome with FerroFluid, large magnet

Vifa DX25TG59-04 1" Fabric Dome Tweeter

I have these in a closed box about 6 liters to start; I think a slightly larger box would help the bass; maybe 8 to 12 liters??? On some recordings, the bass can be just a little boomy even with stuffing/fill of 75%. You guys with good sims software could try this out maybe for those of us not having these tools.

I am using a basic 1st order LP and HP. I won't share my exact X/O here but most of you wouldn't do it my way so no loss really. If you would like more details on my X/O, PM me and I'll talk about it more.

These things are amazingly good for the money spent; I would encourage anyone thinking of a smallish budget system to have a closer look.

I will say I am using a Goertz flat foil inductor, 16 AWG on the M/W and a ClarityCap CSA cap. on the tweeter. The attentuator for the tweeter is Zisters resistors. These X/O components aren't really budget but I tried other lesser caps, coils, resistors here FIRST. I went to the higher quality and will stick with these; the increase in resolution, detail, etc. is certainly worth a few extra dollars spent on X/O components. These drivers; although budget, deserve a decent X/O design; the results are well worth it for sure!

 

[ernperkins]

Here's what Madisound recommends:

Suggested box sizes:

0.15 cubic feet (4.25 liters sealed with 25% filling for an F3 of 110Hz
0.25 cubic feet (7 liters) with 1.5" diameter vent by 5" long for an F3 of 58Hz
0.35 cubic feet (9.9 liters) with 1.5" diameter vent by 4.5" long for an F3 of 50Hz

I modeled the sealed and smaller vented with WinISD and got similar results. This is using the SB T/S spec.s.

 

[waxx]

I would not use them sealed, they get an F3 of 100Hz and an F6 of 72hz in a 6L. A 8L Ported will bring this to an F3 55Hz with a good slot port (15cm wide x1.5cm high x 24cm deep as example). A round port can also, a 6cm diameter 30cm long would work also (but won't fit in the box i think). Or a passive radiator (but i don't know much about tuning those). edit: done with published specs in winisd.

 

[John Busch]

Buy the Parts Express C Note pair, all of 100 bucks. Cabs included. Add about $20 of parts to complete and you are done. Build it. Tweak it. Same build class as you are looking at. Kicks *** for the money. Actually, bet you can't beat it for three or more times the money. I have NO affiliation with PE. Use it as a reference if you wish to pursue the SB build. Much to learn here!

 

[PeteMcK]

I used these SBs in pairs in 20L cabinets, I think I tuned the boxes to ~47Hz. Crossed over to Vifa TG9s, 1st order at ~420Hz. very happy with the result

 

[42476]

I am getting good bass closed; I will try some larger boxes. I have some smaller vented subs but find I don't need them for this project. I will search for some free, online sims later. These will end up being my PC speakers or "B" speakers for late night when the upstairs neighbors are sleeping. More later, thanks for the comments and inputs...

 

[42476]

Just found a quick online sim. F3 in 6 liters is at 100Hz but F10 is at 50Hz. Since I am in the near field and these are near a corner of the room, room gain is helping here. Put it this way; acoustic and electric bass, tuba, etc. all are very convincing. If I sim 10.5 liters, F3 stays the same but F10 goes down 10 Hz to 45 Hz. Going to 15.5 liters F3 stays the same and F10 now goes to 43 Hz. I have some boxes about 15.5 liters but that is larger than I want to go for this project. I think I might have one old test box that is about 11 liters; I'll see if I can dig that out to do an A/B with the 6 liter box in room as they would be used. I loaned out my mic and interface but I can use test tones and sweeps just by ear and get a good idea...more later...

 

[waxx]

I would not trust those online calculators, they are not accurate (or i did not see one that is accurate). Download winisd or an other trustworthy simulator and sim it there.

 

[42476]

This wasn't a calculator, it was a simulator. But, I agree, many people put too much faith in cookbook type calculators; I always try test boxes of different sizes. Of course, not all OEM specs are accurate either. I will look into winisd; many others say it can be trusted.

 

[42476]

Closed Box Simulator

This is a free simulator; it seems to be correct and agrees with some online calculators I DO trust



AJ Designer also has one but the box size seemed way too small for this driver

I tried winisd; the data base didn't show any SB drivers at all; am I missing something or would I need to enter the TSP's manually???

 

[celef]

udo wohlgemuth has done many speakers with cheap sb drivers, he had done lots of driver testing, his websites are a total mess and difficult to search but give it a try if you are intersted, he is one link

U_Do 2, 3 und 4 – es geht Schlag auf Schlag (U_Do 51, U_Do 71, U_Do 53) – Lautsprecher selber bauen

 

[waxx]

I tried winisd; the data base didn't show any SB drivers at all; am I missing something or would I need to enter the TSP's manually???

Yes you have, their database is rather limited. But it's easy to enter them manually

 

[42476]

Thanks Celef; I was able to get the translator to English language. They show 10 liter vented. I have now tried 3 simulators and 3 calculators all online and free. If I want 11 liters closed; that would be a Q of about 0.5 with an F10 somewhere around 44 to 48 Hz which is what I'm after. I think 11 liters is about my maximum box size for this project. I will try closed then maybe vented in this size since the "Lautsprecher..." project shows this in 10 liters. Again, I have the newer round frame SB13PFCR so the data isn't found in many simulator data bases yet but the older version; SB13PFC does show up so I am using that unless it is software I can manually enter the TSP's myself.

 

[celef]

i believe they only changed the shape of the basket and all else has stayed the same, i think it is better to use measured tsp's for the old basket then using the officials

here is some more measurements

Wir sind die Neuen (U_Do 41 ACL) – Lautsprecher selber bauen

but i really rec'd you to measure tsp by yourself, also for the fun of it. download rew or arta/limp, i use rew since i find it more reliable then limp for tsp

 

[42476]

I just compared F10 with a box Q of 0.707 and 0.500. The F10 for the 0.5 Q box is most definitely 10 Hz lower; 45 Hz compared to 55 Hz at least on one simulator. This is a more important indicator of expected bass extension for me than F3. Q of 0.5 is about 11 liters closed so I will go with that next that and see what happens. I shouldn't need as much fill or stuffing; I usually don't like to do more than about 50%. Once I get a final box; I will line all of the internal surfaces with felt then try 35% to maybe 65% fill...

 

[42476]

I have REW, but only have learned the basics so far. Also, my upstairs neighbor is a musician and singer/song writer. I loaned him my mic and interface for his new songs. This is a Dayton calibrated measurement mic but he likes it for recording voice. Obviously, this wouldn't be used on PA for live music but for recording it does quite well.

 

[42476]

https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/SB-Acoustics-SB13PFCR25-8-Data-Sheet.pdf

From Meniscus website; the round frame 8 Ohm spec sheet is marked preliminary


https://meniscus.lightningbasehosted.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SB13PFC25-08-Data-Sheet-1.pdf

The original model in 8 Ohm

The link in German shows a different Fs (53 Hz instead of 45 Hz)...I didn't compare the other TSP's

 

[oon_the_kid]

BTW, did you ever consider the PFC coaxial version?

oon

 

[42476]

I bought the Vifa tweeters on sale for about $24 US each. They have a really low Fs and high power handling and also high output. This gives me a lot of options for X/O frequency, slope, etc. and I need as much SPL above 10 KHz as I can got so the coax would not be a good choice for me. I don't have any boxes around 11 liters I wanted to try but I do have some Scan Speak flow resistors. I would not use these permanently on such an inexpensive project but if I try just one side temporarily, it would effectively lower the Q on my 6 liter box just to see how it sounds not quite so boomy. I have enough MDF to build a test box. Someone also suggested the C-Note kit; I don't do other peoples designs but that might be a good size box if I could just buy the boxes by themselves as an empty pair. Denovo provides the Parts Express knock down boxes but I can't find the Denovo site now; maybe they changed names or parent company??? Anyone know of a source for inexpensive knock down boxes besides Parts Express??? I have the PE 0.23 and 0.56 cu. ft boxes both. the first is too small and the second is too large and they don't offer a size in between. 0.3 to 0.4 cu ft. would be workable (8.5 liters to 11.3 liters).

 

[42476]

Home Audio DIY Bookshelf Speaker Kits

Found it, will look into this more now