Yep, the only serious woofers from SB that measure really good are WO24x and SB34NRXL as they have well sized drive systems with proper demodulation.
I never had the Faital 12RS430 in my hands but all the parameters and design properties look really exhausted, and it's not expensive.
I never had the Faital 12RS430 in my hands but all the parameters and design properties look really exhausted, and it's not expensive.
Thank you for the thoughts...
I will want the new woofer cabinets to play cleanly up to a 250 Hz 2nd order crossover.
My current plan for upgrading the woofer cabinets is replacing the existing single SB34NRX75-6 per side with a pair of SB34NRXL75-8's per side. The existing woofers are in a 70 liter box, the new pair of woofers would go into an 80 liter box.
I have not ruled out the Dayton RSS315HFA-8, it is a fine woofer and a bit cheaper than the SBA. The SS Revelator 32W/8878T00 would also be perfect in every respect except the high price... Four of them run $2700, so I would need to be convinced they offer a substantial advantage over the SB or Dayton alternatives.
A single 15" woofer per side would also work for me, except that I don't have room for a 16" wide cabinet. I would need to make some changes to the furniture in the room. A pair of 12's works nicely however.
(pretty sure the SB have t-shaped pole pieces with copper shorting ring above and below the gap, similar to Scan Speak SD drive system that gives the Revelators nice low distortion. Revelators have additional 3rd shorting ring down on the pole shoe. Have a Revelator 15M mid here where i tried to apply a bucking magnet that denied to stick, so good the backplate was saturized. The WO24P took a bucking magnet well that gave +7% BL. So I would rate Scan SD magnet system at least same linear but potentially stiffer as more saturized. 12" Revelator is great but I would not use it higher than 300Hz or so because cone resonances set in early...)
I was involved in a project that used the Volt 12" woofer. These "reverse" Volt woofers offer excellent cooling of the motor, but that is not a capability I need. Whenever a driver design team goes to great effort to maximize some aspect of performance (such as thermal cooling), it is inevitable that other areas of performance are sacrificed.
Yes I looked at that one. My local dealer in the US never seems to have this driver in stock.
This looks like a nice driver, but it again comes down to the performance priorities of the driver. With PA drivers, most of the time the overwhelming priority is high SPL and durability. Other performance aspects are by necessity put at a lessor priority. A good example of this is the resonance at 650 Hz that can be seen in the impedance curve of the 12N630. Fixing this resonance would have probably required a heavier cone and a little more damping in the surround, but that would have impacted the sensitivity and max SPL, so they left the resonance in place. In my application, I would rather have less SPL capability and push that resonance up past 1k.
@Kwesi said:
Yes.
j.
IME a surround resonance of similar frequency on the VBS 10.2 diy speaker. The designer stated it doesn't present any issues but for me it ruined the speaker. I built them to have a loud *** monitor for mixing and fun, and all I can hear when I play guitar or rhodes is that damn resonance. I can just always hear it and don't use the speakers anymore, that being a major reason why. Kinda bummed. Def smart to try and avoid drivers with inherent resonances if possible.
Thankbyou for your reply. I asked, because I am looking for a 10 inch driver too and choice is quite limited🙁
BTW the Volt 10 is much better than 12 inch, just worth to see inde0endent measurements.
https://voltloudspeakers.co.uk/klang-ton-review-the-rv2501-2574/
Kartesian 265 is ideal, but the price is crazy
This is not the only driver. I don't have time but the number of drivers Klippel measurements from audioexpress is now very exhaustive and provide BL and compliance ssuspension curves for each brand driver, it indicates that the definition used for displacement limits is not the same for all of them (I remember mw16tx vs ptt6.5 reviews published at the same time). It not a question of truth or lie but just of more or less conservative definition used. From that, i found it unfair to make comparison of max spl using this value.
I am eying FP 10RS430 myself for a 10" that can work by itself up to 600Hz in a bookshelf sized enclosure. Have you considered it?
10RS430 - found some measurements and it looks really good! Could be one of the diamonds in their lineup.
https://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-10RS430.htm
And at the same page why I don't trust their measurements. Have a look at Troels FR measurement of the 10RS350 and compare to their own graphs:
https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=151040090
There is even the resonance in the impedance curve but frequency response is perfectly straight - it isn't!
But 10RS430 ...
https://forums.melaudia.net/showthread.php?tid=12646&pid=211715
https://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-10RS430.htm
And at the same page why I don't trust their measurements. Have a look at Troels FR measurement of the 10RS350 and compare to their own graphs:
https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=151040090
There is even the resonance in the impedance curve but frequency response is perfectly straight - it isn't!
But 10RS430 ...
https://forums.melaudia.net/showthread.php?tid=12646&pid=211715
... surely not bad, but I surmise the papyrus SB paper to be better about transparency and details because of their stiff cone. Just a guess, didn't listen to both. But my Faital 12" woofer has a Jensen paper style... with a very ligth shellac coating perhaps.
If Jim is happy with his SB34RNX, one way could be simply to complement the Blesma with a >= 5" Purifi or Illuminator. active filter between the Bliesma and the tweeter (low pass on mid amp)., high pass of the Bliesma managed by the Hypex too (tweeter amp: lower high pass with the channel amp of the tweeter) then on the same hypex tweeter amp a higher passive high pass for the tweeter, dunno if it can work). 4 ways Hypex are comming as well... Cost of a good capacitor must be budgeted (Jensen Superior, or better copper foil, tin foil is neutral to my ears as well, copper a little more euphonic).
2 cents, those drivers choices are a "nigthmare", never easy !
One advantage I can see is a smaller cabinet that migth have better imaging being on a stand. Permit an easier Avalon like cabinet on stand though. I find cool what beind made before by Jim putting the Hypex in the column stand.
2 cents, those drivers choices are a "nigthmare", never easy !
One advantage I can see is a smaller cabinet that migth have better imaging being on a stand. Permit an easier Avalon like cabinet on stand though. I find cool what beind made before by Jim putting the Hypex in the column stand.
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20 years ago the Peerless P830845 was Klippel'ed and it dialled in at 13mm x-max:
I designed a speaker with a pair of them. It simulates like this:
Here is a ground plane measurements from some time ago, with a basic electret condenser microphone:
I took this to check the 4pi simulation with VituixCAD2.
The dip at 500Hz is real, and the rise in H3 / H2 due to the cone resonance can be eliminated with a series notch filter for the 1.8KHz resonance, just as demonstrated on the datasheet:
The harmonics are likely even lower, in level, because of the limitation of the measurement technique (noise floor affected by outdoor noise, microphone self-noise affects ability to resolve harmonics etc)
I never documented the build/design, mainly because the mid-range and woofers were not readily available to buy.
I run it LR4 @380Hz:
After a period of absence, it's available for buy again:
USA - https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-XXLS-P830845-12-Nomex-Cone-Subwoofer-8-Ohm-264-1646
EU - https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-xxls-p830845.html
I designed a speaker with a pair of them. It simulates like this:
Here is a ground plane measurements from some time ago, with a basic electret condenser microphone:
I took this to check the 4pi simulation with VituixCAD2.
The dip at 500Hz is real, and the rise in H3 / H2 due to the cone resonance can be eliminated with a series notch filter for the 1.8KHz resonance, just as demonstrated on the datasheet:
The harmonics are likely even lower, in level, because of the limitation of the measurement technique (noise floor affected by outdoor noise, microphone self-noise affects ability to resolve harmonics etc)
I never documented the build/design, mainly because the mid-range and woofers were not readily available to buy.
I run it LR4 @380Hz:
After a period of absence, it's available for buy again:
USA - https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-XXLS-P830845-12-Nomex-Cone-Subwoofer-8-Ohm-264-1646
EU - https://www.soundimports.eu/en/peerless-by-tymphany-xxls-p830845.html
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I noticed & commented on that too. I checked with Solen to see if they'll be getting them in Canada, and they said no, the high minimum order # still holds with Tymphany/Peerless. They conjectured that PE likely made a deal on getting big lots, as XXLS10 & 12s as well as an XLS10 model are anticipated for early Feb.
But if the X/XLS drivers are also available retail in the EU, maybe my Solen contact's info is out of date.
Depends on application, no?
I have XLS10s in my Linkwitz Orions. Never measured or used them elsewhere. They seem well made. No complaints about the bass there.
Factory spec sheet for XLS10 shows a deep suckout 5~700Hz which isn't there at all in the XXLS10. XLS12 has the same suckout.
The XXLS12 doesn't show this -- just a small dip maybe 2 dB at 600Hz.
Yes I am, but I am thinking what are the drawbacks. It measurements extremely well, but I wonder how good is it's sound quality for hifi. This is PA subwoofer by definition, so Faitals concern was not to make best possible sounding driver, but something that goes deep in small size and normal price
On the other hand side @hifijim
Are you considering different sonic qualities of particular drivers, or not?
The woofers arrived. The SS Revelator 26W/4867T was packed well and shipped from Madisound without any problems.
I also bought the hardwood lumber I will need to make the laminated baffle
j.
I also bought the hardwood lumber I will need to make the laminated baffle
j.
