I'd say absolutely. Not even close to being the same animals, really. It wouldn't do anything for your bass, though, that would still be a problem to solve (maybe some bracing would help?).
On the positive side, it doesn't really cost too much to find out about the top end, get a couple of the ~$20 waveguides and a couple of the ~$45 Selenium drivers and the crossover components for the basic econowave setup. You can set the waveguides on top of your Klipsch cabinet without doing any sawing and wire into the Klipsch woofers, see what you think. If for some reason you don't like what you hear, you're not out much money or time. If you do like it, it might cost you time, since you could find yourself building a succession of ewaves -- making them is apparently addictive, some guys have made 4 or more sets (I'm only up to one plus two unfinished sets for relatives).
bwaslo said:
How low is the waveguide crossed? Doesn't most of the midrange come from the choosen midwoofer?
dave
You can't go too low with the econowave. It's going to mate well with a 10 or 12, a 15 might be a real stretch. How high will the Klipsch play and still sound good?
Everyone seems to be talking about speakers. Althou the most "individual" of a hifi's components, the entire system is important.
As far as speakers go, the state-of-the-art still leaves a huge amount of room for improvement. So much room that it is possible to have equally valid loudspeakers that sound "totally" different.
As i'll guess from the praises given the econowave, and how much pleasure i've had listening to Frugel-Horn Mk3 the last couple days (w Alpair 7), getting sound that moves you need not cost an arm & a leg.
dave
As far as speakers go, the state-of-the-art still leaves a huge amount of room for improvement. So much room that it is possible to have equally valid loudspeakers that sound "totally" different.
As i'll guess from the praises given the econowave, and how much pleasure i've had listening to Frugel-Horn Mk3 the last couple days (w Alpair 7), getting sound that moves you need not cost an arm & a leg.
dave
Hey Pano, what is that material on the front of your OBs? Is it a foam of some kind? You and John both seem to have it. Is it there to deal with diffraction?
I'm done hijacking this thread.
I'm done hijacking this thread.
It's faux stone paint. Easy to make look good and actually helps with diffraction.
On the back side it's truck bed liner paint. It damps well.
On the back side it's truck bed liner paint. It damps well.
I think in the brief review I've done on the econowave its usually crossing over at about 1.2K, which is not too far from the current crossover point on the Klipsch. I think a lot of "midrange" info is above that - I would consider up to about 3K still high mids.
The "sounding good" part is the issue. Maybe with more bracing that will improve more.
This might be a good option while I think over trying some big assisted open baffles vs other approach. I might end up with these for use on loud rock stuff and then use the Tang Bands in a folded horn alone for my jazz and small scale classical.
Truth is, I can't really spend any significant money right now (just bought ANOTHER guitar), so for a couple of months its just in the planning stage. I could probably try the econowave project though.
The "sounding good" part is the issue. Maybe with more bracing that will improve more.
This might be a good option while I think over trying some big assisted open baffles vs other approach. I might end up with these for use on loud rock stuff and then use the Tang Bands in a folded horn alone for my jazz and small scale classical.
Truth is, I can't really spend any significant money right now (just bought ANOTHER guitar), so for a couple of months its just in the planning stage. I could probably try the econowave project though.
With a 1.2k XO most of the midrange is handled by the midwoofer.
Midrange is the middle 4 (of 10) octaves... 160 Hz to 2.5 kHz.
dave
The Econowave is true to its name. You can try it for little cash. The budget option is the Selenium driver, on sale now for about $40. The deluxe and ultra smooth option is one of the Celestion 1" drivers with the film diaphragm. Soooo good.
Marketek sells them, among others. In the $100 range.
Still not sure the Klipsch bass would play up that high, musically anyway.
Marketek sells them, among others. In the $100 range.
Still not sure the Klipsch bass would play up that high, musically anyway.
It'll live up to its name even more if I can find a waveguide that will fit the existing hole (the current horn is about 6" X 11" on the outside, I'm guessing the hole is maybe 5" X 10, but the listed waveguides in the article are 12", which will both be a bit too large for the hole but also hit the edges of the cab, which is right at 12" across) and be able to use my current Klipsch horn drivers. If I can get that sorted out I can give it a try - if I really like it I can then upgrade the drivers to the titanium offered by Mr. Crites later. This will be very cool if I can find a horn that will fit both the driver and the hole, then I can convert for about $50 total without any woodworking mods!
As far as the bass playing that high, I don't have it written down anywhere, but I have a schematic of the crossover, and going on longterm memory I think the stock crossover hands it off at about 1.7K.
Hi Pano,
This reminds me something.
Did you try open the rear cap of the compression driver of the Altec 605? I'm wondering if this can do any good to an OB coaxial...
I begin to imagine a 3" dome (of a 15" coaxial) facing the back😀
Thanks. I could probably shave some off the longest dimension to shoehorn it in. I might order a pair of these and the Zilch crossover and give it a try.
One other really silly idea occurs to me - if I could figure out how my Tractrix horn (its a 90 by 60 degree) differs from the constant directivity horns, maybe I could alter the contours with some modelling clay!
Does the Zilch crossover do anything besides act as a crossover? I'm wondering if I can get the bulk of the improvement simply from replacing the horn; obviously that would make this even more "econo" for now. I suspect my current crossover probably crosses in near the same range.
Horn driver AND crossover can make a huge difference. Matching it well to the woofer is also top priority.
The Zilch/Jackgiff crossovers also flatten the high end. When a compression driver is used with a CD waveguide, the response naturally falls from crossover point as frequency increases, so it needs to be flattened again. The benefit is that the radiation pattern gives a spectrum near constant in shape all the way out to 45 degrees off axis where it drops uniformly. A really nice thing about that is when you use them with a sharp toe-in of about 45 degrees, and get a sweet spot approaching the separation distance between the speakers. I have speakers 10feet apart and the sweet spot is nearly 7 ft wide about 12 feet away.
The crossovers don't do much special to woofer response other than roll it off and optimize phase at crossover. For best results you'll want to play with it though. Some basic measurement gear is needed to get the best out of the arrangement.
I don't know about the Klipsch driver, whether that will do well. There does seem to be a lot of synergy between the Selenium driver and the 6"x12" waveguide from what's been reported.
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You will want to have the waveguide directly above the woofer(s) (not sure how yours are set up) -- the idea is that the directivity of the waveguide is supposed to blend into the directivity of the woofer at crossover so the spectrum remains relatively stable over the room down to 1kHz or lower. Two side-by-side big woofers would have too narrow directivity as 1.2kHz. A single 10" or 12" seems to have the best history, but it's been done reasonably from 8" to 15"
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