Nuuk said:
I would 2nd that. This is a public forum for the DIyers and as such it depends on everyone of us to contribute to the community to keep it grow.
Carlos is doing exactly that. You may not like his ideas (and quite frankly I don't) but he is doing exactly what everyone of us is supposed to do: contributing to the collective experience of DIY audio. He put together a design, listened to it, compared it to others and gave us his experience / opinions.
He may be right and he may wrong, but his experience is his experience and as long as it is value to some of us, no one should belittle him and his experience and tell him why his regulated gc sucks, especially from those of us who haven't tried it extensively.
It is especially sensitive (and silly) when the critism comes from guys who have commercial interests in like-products and who apprently lack adequate knowledge on electronic engineering.
"Why is it so necessary to have our opinions regarding our audio systems validated? Are we all this fragile?"
I don't feel fragile about my work and don't need anyones opinion on its quality. I do however like to see respect between members on each individuals efforts.
The reason we seek the opinions of others, about their own work, is so that we don't have to constantly reinvent the wheel. We have to trust our own judgement as to how we assess those opinions. I am reasonably confident that I can do that. Is that not a valid excercise ??
Shoog
I don't feel fragile about my work and don't need anyones opinion on its quality. I do however like to see respect between members on each individuals efforts.
The reason we seek the opinions of others, about their own work, is so that we don't have to constantly reinvent the wheel. We have to trust our own judgement as to how we assess those opinions. I am reasonably confident that I can do that. Is that not a valid excercise ??
Shoog
Serves two:
1. Use free range beef or Bison (american "buffalo").
2. mix with a handful of chopped fresh parsley, 2 minced cloves of garlic, a minced shallot or small onion, a little salt and pepper, and an egg yolk. Other spices can be added in moderation - I like a little fresh oregano. Form into patties.
3. grill to medium over high heat. About a minute before removing, you may add a thick slice of cheese. I recommend a good smoked aged cheddar but other cheeses may do well.
It really is high cuisine. 😉
And now, back to the regularly scheduled program. Er, make that back to the original topic?
Despite everything, there have been some valuable tidbits scattered here and there, and I know I've learned a thing or three.
C
I used export-grade Zimbabwean beef and now this burger really sings.
Maybe it's time to design some high-end mustard sauce to complement the burger.
analog_sa said:
I fear "threadjacking" here, but American Bison isn't a moo-cow. 🙂 It's fat content is like 7%, and tastes great. I wonder how they got here from Italy?
millwood said:
Unfortunatelly, Carlos was the first one to claim that everything I did so far sucks and his is the only way to go (for best sound). BTW, he did that in a very offending way.
I tried his design extensively, and I believe I have every right to comment on how I find it to sound. As you read my comments, you notice that I'm not even saying it's bad. He did not build my design and did not try it, so he shouldn't be taking any conclusions as to the sound comparison between the two.
What I'm doing here is not critisism, but honest evaluation. I also don't believe that adequate knowledge in electronic engineering is needed to decide how a given piece of electronics sounds.
My commercial interests are not strong enough to bias me to the point that I would claim that black is white. I'm always a hobbyist first and if that amp really impressed me, I would say so. Unless I'm posting in Vendors Bazaar section, all my posts should be taken as from a person interested in it as a hobby only.
However, I already mentioned that reg supplies could be good, when properly implemented, so I don't understand why this discussion continuously returnes to what I said or what Carlos said. This is DIY, so go ahead and build the amp and show some respect to those who already did.
nobody said it sucks.....in fact everybody likes it exept for PD who had some milder reservations.
the circuit carlos made is fine - but there is always room for improvement.........why don't we try to "make things better"......?
lets have some suggestions........
🙂
i - for one - am really looking forward to your (own) implementation of regulated supply for your gainclone.
🙂
This really stinks.
Good sunny day, beach, good water, arrived home and...
Still the same crap talk.
Don't blame me to defend myself.
The "hamburger" sounds fine thank you, I know the oppinion of analog_sa about ANY op-amp.
I've seen engineers saying the NE5534 sounds better that the OPA627.
Incompetents.
Or some hard-hearing guys as those on a local radio station that had the equalizer with the midband at max., bass and treble at mid-position. This sounded good for them!
Just imagine people at home, an hi-fi sounding like a portable radio!
Note: Peter can't get an OPA627 sounding as it should, and I knew that from the begining.
If this thread continues this way, I'll stop posting, I have no life for this.
Thank you.
Good bye.
Good sunny day, beach, good water, arrived home and...
Still the same crap talk.
Don't blame me to defend myself.
The "hamburger" sounds fine thank you, I know the oppinion of analog_sa about ANY op-amp.
I've seen engineers saying the NE5534 sounds better that the OPA627.
Incompetents.
Or some hard-hearing guys as those on a local radio station that had the equalizer with the midband at max., bass and treble at mid-position. This sounded good for them!
Just imagine people at home, an hi-fi sounding like a portable radio!
Note: Peter can't get an OPA627 sounding as it should, and I knew that from the begining.
If this thread continues this way, I'll stop posting, I have no life for this.
Thank you.
Good bye.
Can´t you stop comparing things you haven´t seen or listened to? Have you listened to PD´s "shitty" ML-preamp?
Your comments offensive or not are don´t actually say a lot and rather prove more so that you´re not really talking open-minded and engineer-like or even know what you´re talking about really.
You think you´re in audio-nirvana or god knows where else and want to prove yourself or whatever.
I believe Nuuk has summed it up quite well and may be right.
This is a discussion board and we all should try to do just this
and naturally be interested in others work!?
You´re not?, well then this is not a place you should be hanging out.
You´re pointing out things like PD´s speakers are easier to drive.
Could you imagine that those speakers are far superior to yours and that Peter´s do reveal more of the differences of the amps?
This is just one example of crap talk that you started
and again really obvious and believe you me I can´t be bothered to give you any more examples.
Please go through the whole thread and tell me who´s being over the top.
Sorry for that post but it´s rather annoying to have such a senseless thread on top of diyaudio´s index-page.
Ok, everyone is getting a little heated here, and the thread is currently going nowhere. Please think before you post, and if you have nothing positive to say, then don't post.
Thank you
Who other than yourself can believe this statement? Is it really rocket science to wire 2 resistors and a couple of decoupling caps?
Are you really unable to accept that personal preferences differ and the 627 may not be to everyone's liking?
I think everyone should take a look at this and just calm down a bit...it's only audio 😀
Bit-Tech Article
Bit-Tech Article
.....ok - ready for the finals......i spent a couple of hours making a superb lasagne....and i have a few good barberas......i'm ready to regulate........may the best win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😉
I would like to understand what components people are using and any impressions of preference.
It sounds like most of the great sound is coming from circuit design and circuit layout but I seem to recall that as Carlos was doing his final iterations of cap value etc. he was also changing from a "whatever" quality cap to a "good quality cap". I am paraphrasing here because I am doing this from memory. So Carlos expected to get some benefit from going to the part quality level he did. I am not sure exactly what level that is or his preferences.
Sounds like folks have not used "exotic" quality components and have gotten very satisfying implementations they are enthusiastic about.
So my question is for those that have implemented the Regulated Buffered Inverted GC: what component types are you recommending? How much difference if any did you experience over generic "whatever" components? I am thinking about the caps, resistors etc. because the regulators have been discussed to some extent.
It sounds like most of the great sound is coming from circuit design and circuit layout but I seem to recall that as Carlos was doing his final iterations of cap value etc. he was also changing from a "whatever" quality cap to a "good quality cap". I am paraphrasing here because I am doing this from memory. So Carlos expected to get some benefit from going to the part quality level he did. I am not sure exactly what level that is or his preferences.
Sounds like folks have not used "exotic" quality components and have gotten very satisfying implementations they are enthusiastic about.
So my question is for those that have implemented the Regulated Buffered Inverted GC: what component types are you recommending? How much difference if any did you experience over generic "whatever" components? I am thinking about the caps, resistors etc. because the regulators have been discussed to some extent.
Note: Peter can't get an OPA627 sounding as it should, and I knew that from the begining.
If this thread continues this way, I'll stop posting, I have no life for this.
Thank you.
Good bye. [/B][/QUOTE]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you shoud STOP being offensive to others, especially Peter. I may not agree with him but I do read what he asserts.
Your own GC schematic is not anything to shout about. The coupling caps introduce their own sound, as does the OPA627.
There are plenty of people who like the 627 and others who don't ; regardless of decoupling.
One of the most effective decoupling techniques is to use an expesive NPO 0.1uF between V+ and V-. Tames the LM6172 perfectly. There are plenty of posts on this issue and you are just one of many who have found differences.
If this thread continues this way, I'll stop posting, I have no life for this.
Thank you.
Good bye.
[/B][/QUOTE]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you shoud STOP being offensive to others, especially Peter. I may not agree with him but I do read what he asserts.
Your own GC schematic is not anything to shout about. The coupling caps introduce their own sound, as does the OPA627.
There are plenty of people who like the 627 and others who don't ; regardless of decoupling.
One of the most effective decoupling techniques is to use an expesive NPO 0.1uF between V+ and V-. Tames the LM6172 perfectly. There are plenty of posts on this issue and you are just one of many who have found differences.
You know, what we have here are two people of strong opinion and the other people that line up behind anyone that takes a stand. We do have a few free thinkers too and most of us are laughing at the rest.
Neither one of our heros can back down and lose face so we can forget about that.
Now, lets see what we really have to look at here.
The idea is placed before us that using regulators to power the National high power chip amps is a good idea. OK, nothing is wrong with that so far. Some people disagree but the ones that do only build cook book circuits and if it's not in there favorite cook book they don't understand and that's OK too.
Different part values are talked about to go with the regulators. OK, that's fine because different types of regulators have there own optimum designs just like amplifiers do. Some people like chip regulators, others like myself build discreet circuits. No problem there, at least not for me.
Somewhere along the line the words BEST are spoken out loud. Oh My God! We are in for it now. The trashing begins.
What most of the posters forget is that our heros in this drama used there own systems to "tune" there amps.
I do not believe for one second that one of these amps is the best in all systems.
I will say that the regulated design will be more stable into difficult loads and it will drive power hungry speakers better. For these two reasons I think more people will get better performance from an amp. with a regulated power supply. I exclude battery powered designs because almost no one will build and live with one of these long term.
Do the buffers make a difference? I don't know because I haven't gone that far down the line yet. I can see where it could, but to fight over which opamp chip to buffer with goes right back to SYSTEM TUNING.
I system tune just like everyone else does. The difference is I know that it's happening and say so. No one size fits all so step back, take 3 deep breaths, admitt to yourself you could be in error about some things, and DROP THE ATTITUDES.
later BZ
Neither one of our heros can back down and lose face so we can forget about that.
Now, lets see what we really have to look at here.
The idea is placed before us that using regulators to power the National high power chip amps is a good idea. OK, nothing is wrong with that so far. Some people disagree but the ones that do only build cook book circuits and if it's not in there favorite cook book they don't understand and that's OK too.
Different part values are talked about to go with the regulators. OK, that's fine because different types of regulators have there own optimum designs just like amplifiers do. Some people like chip regulators, others like myself build discreet circuits. No problem there, at least not for me.
Somewhere along the line the words BEST are spoken out loud. Oh My God! We are in for it now. The trashing begins.
What most of the posters forget is that our heros in this drama used there own systems to "tune" there amps.
I do not believe for one second that one of these amps is the best in all systems.
I will say that the regulated design will be more stable into difficult loads and it will drive power hungry speakers better. For these two reasons I think more people will get better performance from an amp. with a regulated power supply. I exclude battery powered designs because almost no one will build and live with one of these long term.
Do the buffers make a difference? I don't know because I haven't gone that far down the line yet. I can see where it could, but to fight over which opamp chip to buffer with goes right back to SYSTEM TUNING.
I system tune just like everyone else does. The difference is I know that it's happening and say so. No one size fits all so step back, take 3 deep breaths, admitt to yourself you could be in error about some things, and DROP THE ATTITUDES.
later BZ
Nuuk said:
We are already working on it....some posts have been moved, but it means someone taking an hour or more to go thru all the posts... 🙁
dave
What is high-end?
What is high-end?
Can a LM3875 based amp ever be high-end?
What is the criteria for high-end?
Who puts the high-end label on an amp?
Is OPA627 high-end?
What are you talking about? Lost track long time ago.
This is starting to sound like Jocko's 29 Commandments!
What is high-end?
Can a LM3875 based amp ever be high-end?
What is the criteria for high-end?
Who puts the high-end label on an amp?
Is OPA627 high-end?
What are you talking about? Lost track long time ago.
This is starting to sound like Jocko's 29 Commandments!
Re: What is high-end?
YA, what he said!
Oh, and yes I have. What he said too.
BZ
peranders said:What is high-end?
Can a LM3875 based amp ever be high-end?
What is the criteria for high-end?
Who puts the high-end label on an amp?
Is OPA627 high-end?
What are you talking about? Lost track long time ago.
This is starting to sound like Jocko's 29 Commandments!
YA, what he said!
Oh, and yes I have. What he said too.
BZ
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