Re: I may become a joker too
For all those who didn't read it yet: http://www.sakurasystems.com/reviews/reviews1.html
BTW, it's by the guy who has seen most of it (and had it all as well). Actually, my interests in GC were triggered after reading that.
Here's the short review sample, of what you can expect from a chip amp:
>>The 25-watt Gaincard amplifier will outplay the Krells and Levinsons, it will reveal more of the poetry and structure of musical art than any silicon-based amplifier I have experienced... <<
chris ma said:
For all those who didn't read it yet: http://www.sakurasystems.com/reviews/reviews1.html
BTW, it's by the guy who has seen most of it (and had it all as well). Actually, my interests in GC were triggered after reading that.
Here's the short review sample, of what you can expect from a chip amp:
>>The 25-watt Gaincard amplifier will outplay the Krells and Levinsons, it will reveal more of the poetry and structure of musical art than any silicon-based amplifier I have experienced... <<
Transparency, harmonics, soundstage, midband and treble is what impresses me with National's chips.
It's magical.
With regulated PSU even the bass is high-end, it seams to drive any speaker with impressive dynamics and precision.
I know what I hear and I know how to distinguish people that knows how to listen.
And I recognize a serious review when I read it.
This is HIGH-END no matter what people that haven't tried it say.
It's magical.
With regulated PSU even the bass is high-end, it seams to drive any speaker with impressive dynamics and precision.
I know what I hear and I know how to distinguish people that knows how to listen.
And I recognize a serious review when I read it.
This is HIGH-END no matter what people that haven't tried it say.
Ya know what guys. The back and forth over which amp configuration is best will go on untill the end of time OK. Some people will try all of the high cost parts trying to make some inadequate design sound the way they want it to. Other will take a good design and put it in a way cool custom box and shout about how the brand of plexiglass used for the feet make it sound better, and that's OK. The ones of you I like to read posts by are the guys that try something that makes sense, tweek it around and let use know you impressions. If you back it up with measurements or try to explain why you think something helps thats even better. Every one is entitled to their opinion and to give use that opinion as well. The people that state their opinions as facts get ignored real quick.
Back to the subject at hand, regulated PS GC amps. I have built a couple of amps using the 3886 and 3875 chip amps and think that they sound very good. The better the power supply is the better the amp sounds. The one I have under construction right now will have regulated supplies most likely zenor referenced cap multiplyer designs. I have used this type of power supply with several different amps and have always likesd the results, better bandwidth, lower distortion, better load stability, all good things in my book. I have every reason to think that a chip amp with a regulated PS will out perform one without a regulated PS.
Do I think that the gain clone clones are the best amps in the world? I can't say, I havent heard all of the amps in the world with all possible speakers in ideal rooms.
Later BZ
Back to the subject at hand, regulated PS GC amps. I have built a couple of amps using the 3886 and 3875 chip amps and think that they sound very good. The better the power supply is the better the amp sounds. The one I have under construction right now will have regulated supplies most likely zenor referenced cap multiplyer designs. I have used this type of power supply with several different amps and have always likesd the results, better bandwidth, lower distortion, better load stability, all good things in my book. I have every reason to think that a chip amp with a regulated PS will out perform one without a regulated PS.
Do I think that the gain clone clones are the best amps in the world? I can't say, I havent heard all of the amps in the world with all possible speakers in ideal rooms.
Later BZ
Works for me too Carlos!
I worry about the detractors who surface in the middle of a thread and dismiss something based upon a pre-conceived notion on how an amplifier should sound because it does not fit into their way of thinking. The product marketers in audio surely love this type of consumer, if it does not have the designer badge, weigh 25KG, have a 10mm face plate and be painted champagne gold it can’t sound good! Etc Etc Etc..........
If it’s based on a chip with many active components it’s too complicated, the parts cost $5 so it’s not expensive enough and so is not worth considering and is summarily dismissed along with any who think it sounds good!
Actually I don’t like the term ‘high end’ because it generally means all of the above pre-conceived notions about Hi-Fi particularly the price tag! However if I wished to term a regulated GC as high end then who is to dispute that? To me it is high end because I have not heard anything better, that’s my decision, my ears and my listening pleasure nobody else’s. Just my 2p worth. 😉
I worry about the detractors who surface in the middle of a thread and dismiss something based upon a pre-conceived notion on how an amplifier should sound because it does not fit into their way of thinking. The product marketers in audio surely love this type of consumer, if it does not have the designer badge, weigh 25KG, have a 10mm face plate and be painted champagne gold it can’t sound good! Etc Etc Etc..........
If it’s based on a chip with many active components it’s too complicated, the parts cost $5 so it’s not expensive enough and so is not worth considering and is summarily dismissed along with any who think it sounds good!
Actually I don’t like the term ‘high end’ because it generally means all of the above pre-conceived notions about Hi-Fi particularly the price tag! However if I wished to term a regulated GC as high end then who is to dispute that? To me it is high end because I have not heard anything better, that’s my decision, my ears and my listening pleasure nobody else’s. Just my 2p worth. 😉
NealG said:
... and if it doesn't have a 5-star rating on What Hi-Fi? ... and if it's not Stereophile "class A" rating, Etc Etc Etc...........
😀
I won't mention any names but a guy who has been in the hi-fi industry for quite a long time and may well have had a hand in something that many of you have in your systems, has just built a GC and is quite simply amazed at the sound quality.
We are talking of a very experienced hi-fi designer/builder here, not some kid in his bedroom building his first amp!
I didn't need any more convincing that the GC is an exceptional amplifier but I respect this guy's opinion as he has been helping me with my hi-fi for five or six years now and he really knows his stuff.
With so much experience building hi-fi, and as a trained electronics engineer, he couldn't really believe that the chip 'recipe' would actually work so well. It seems that it's one of those concepts that you just have to try for yourself before you can believe in it (or pass comment on)! 😉
Anyway, as somebody said, let's get off that subject and back to the topic of regulated PSU's! Mine's getting nearer completion so I hope to give a valid opinion soon.
We are talking of a very experienced hi-fi designer/builder here, not some kid in his bedroom building his first amp!
I didn't need any more convincing that the GC is an exceptional amplifier but I respect this guy's opinion as he has been helping me with my hi-fi for five or six years now and he really knows his stuff.
With so much experience building hi-fi, and as a trained electronics engineer, he couldn't really believe that the chip 'recipe' would actually work so well. It seems that it's one of those concepts that you just have to try for yourself before you can believe in it (or pass comment on)! 😉
Anyway, as somebody said, let's get off that subject and back to the topic of regulated PSU's! Mine's getting nearer completion so I hope to give a valid opinion soon.
Anyone know if the orginal Gaincard has regulated PS?
I am ordering some LT1083s for my GC, can't wait to try!
I am ordering some LT1083s for my GC, can't wait to try!
Hi,
I plan to use Pedja's discrete regulators. I am just wondering if the TIP3055/TIP2955 is a good cobination for the pass transistors.
Miguel
I plan to use Pedja's discrete regulators. I am just wondering if the TIP3055/TIP2955 is a good cobination for the pass transistors.
Miguel
Miguel, that was the method I intended to use originally as I have some TIP3055/TIP2955's here. I found a couple of circuits using those transistors that had been built so I guess it is fine to use them with the usual proviso of using suitable heatsinks etc! 😉
Nuuk is building a PSU with LM338 regs.
Miguel, I bought my last ones at around 2€ each in Queluz, I think it's a good price, I've seen them at more than 4€ at Dimofel.😱
Miguel, I bought my last ones at around 2€ each in Queluz, I think it's a good price, I've seen them at more than 4€ at Dimofel.😱
Hi Carlos,
I got some TIP3055/2955 so I though I could use them. See that Pedja reports better results with the discrete regulator. BTW I'm using OPA549's, which may have different behaviour from the LM...'s.
Miguel
I got some TIP3055/2955 so I though I could use them. See that Pedja reports better results with the discrete regulator. BTW I'm using OPA549's, which may have different behaviour from the LM...'s.
Miguel
The first time I used a regulated PSU on a GC was actually on my sub: two OPA549s in parallel.
I used the LM338s.
Some months later this GC and 😱 .
I don't power that thing off for 2 weeks.
S'beautiful. 😀
I suppose you can get very good results with discrete regulators too, better or not, I don't know, haven't tried it.
What I found out with the LM338s is that thay are very sensitive to the capacitance after them.
From incredible to miserable goes just a cap.
I used the LM338s.
Some months later this GC and 😱 .
I don't power that thing off for 2 weeks.
S'beautiful.
😀 I suppose you can get very good results with discrete regulators too, better or not, I don't know, haven't tried it.
What I found out with the LM338s is that thay are very sensitive to the capacitance after them.
From incredible to miserable goes just a cap.
Carlosfm,
Normally you are an advocate of bypassing the power supply to each opamp chip from each rail to ground with with 100uf electrolytics, bypassed with 1.0uf ceramic as in your OPA647/BUF634 preamp.
The schematic you posted of your buffered inverted gainclone (page 3 of this thread) uses 22uF only on the OPA627 with no ceramic cap shown.
What caused you to take a different approach on the buffered inverted gainclone?
Normally you are an advocate of bypassing the power supply to each opamp chip from each rail to ground with with 100uf electrolytics, bypassed with 1.0uf ceramic as in your OPA647/BUF634 preamp.
The schematic you posted of your buffered inverted gainclone (page 3 of this thread) uses 22uF only on the OPA627 with no ceramic cap shown.
What caused you to take a different approach on the buffered inverted gainclone?
I always recommended between 22 to 100uf, bypassed with 0.1uf.
As I had space restrictions, didn't want the board to be too big, I bypassed under the PCB.
Also, between + and -.
I forgot to put that in the schematic, didn't think it was important but it is.
But in lack of space I would ultimately dispense the 0.1uf caps and use just the electrolythics as near as possible to each of the op-amps' PSU pins, as what these animals like is capacitance.
Ceramics or film bypass near the op-amp and electros far away (most cases on the same side ) gives bad, slow, detached, dominating bass, and muck up the sound, this works better with slow and inferior op-amps like the NE5532 and so on, they're not so picky.😀
As I had space restrictions, didn't want the board to be too big, I bypassed under the PCB.
Also, between + and -.
I forgot to put that in the schematic, didn't think it was important but it is.
But in lack of space I would ultimately dispense the 0.1uf caps and use just the electrolythics as near as possible to each of the op-amps' PSU pins, as what these animals like is capacitance.
Ceramics or film bypass near the op-amp and electros far away (most cases on the same side
) gives bad, slow, detached, dominating bass, and muck up the sound, this works better with slow and inferior op-amps like the NE5532 and so on, they're not so picky.😀
carlosfm said:
I had not caught before that you also implement this between V+ and V-. I've seen this done before but usually it is instead of between the V+ (or V-) and ground. Doing both ways (supply to ground & V+ to V-) would give more insurance but I wonder if there is a potential downside to watch out for. Not aware of one but I wonder since generally I don't see both. Perhaps typically going with one or the other is to save parts and space if one or the other is considered adequate.
carlosfm said:
Now about the NE5532....... Just kidding, I think we have adequately exchanged views on the NE5532 previously. 🙂
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