Hi all !
after my loudspeaker lost a fight with the cat of my wife,
it's time to start a new project
so.... Design rule nr.1 steel mesh to save the drivers.
My old Speakers where driven by Hypex FA Amps and one issue i had was that watching youtube often resulted in muting when there was
a rest in some videos, not in musik clips, in spoken clips like DIY videos.
i never was able to solve it, therefore i thought i might go passive this time.
Surfing around at troels website i found those high efficeny speakers. like the Faital 3 WC -15 which makes me curious.
so , how (or why) they are different against, eg. Ekta Grande ?
I can imagen that the soundstage is bigger and the location where the instrument exactly is, is not so good in case of the big baffle,
But my fantasy lacks a bit to understand more.
The lighter membran do no omph omph - ok i can understand. its like flatten the impedance peak(s) in a vented system.
i always thought that fast transient attacks are in general based on the alignments ( 0,707 - 0,58 - 0,500) and only secondary at the chassis.
anyone able to explain me the benefits
thank you richard
after my loudspeaker lost a fight with the cat of my wife,
it's time to start a new project
so.... Design rule nr.1 steel mesh to save the drivers.
My old Speakers where driven by Hypex FA Amps and one issue i had was that watching youtube often resulted in muting when there was
a rest in some videos, not in musik clips, in spoken clips like DIY videos.
i never was able to solve it, therefore i thought i might go passive this time.
Surfing around at troels website i found those high efficeny speakers. like the Faital 3 WC -15 which makes me curious.
so , how (or why) they are different against, eg. Ekta Grande ?
I can imagen that the soundstage is bigger and the location where the instrument exactly is, is not so good in case of the big baffle,
But my fantasy lacks a bit to understand more.
The lighter membran do no omph omph - ok i can understand. its like flatten the impedance peak(s) in a vented system.
i always thought that fast transient attacks are in general based on the alignments ( 0,707 - 0,58 - 0,500) and only secondary at the chassis.
anyone able to explain me the benefits
thank you richard
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The Klipschhorn approach would be both high efficiency, and relatively cat-proof.
Klipschhorn
The omni directional Sansui SF-1 and SF-2 radial speakers are cat proof, but now all 50 years old, and would make an interesting project.
Sansui Radial
Klipschhorn
The omni directional Sansui SF-1 and SF-2 radial speakers are cat proof, but now all 50 years old, and would make an interesting project.
Sansui Radial
Clean low frequency transients like percussion are primarily based on having enough cone area to follow them. At standard levels in a normal room this is roughly a 10-12" woofer or multiple smaller ones like 2 x 8" which is why midfield studio monitors are the size they are. They also tend to be >90 dB efficiency though with them all being active this is less relevant. PA levels of efficiency of 95+ dB plus are achieved with large light cones that audibly resonate which may add a bit of character to the sound but is usually undesirable when high technical performance is an objective. The Q of room modes is normally more closely related to what we hear at low frequencies than the Q of drivers.
Home audio speaker manufacturers and particularly audiophile subjectivists may place value in a wide range of things other than technical performance which is why home audio speakers take the wide range of forms that they do. Nothing wrong with this obviously but it can be wise to be aware of it when looking at home audio speakers for guidance/reference.
@BlinkTooFast yeah, that might work.
btw: the assasin attached.3 victims, one seas crescendo tweeter, 2 seas excel chassis....
@andy19191
if i understand you correct, same old situation. speakers are like food, pizza or spagetthi, a matter of taste.with coloration of the pa chassis.
mixed up with the room (thanks for that reminder, i forgot it).
what are the behavior of high effeciency speakers at really low spl ? are they performing better then speakers with, eg say 86db/1w ?
or is this effect also depending at the cone area ? more is better ?
btw: the assasin attached.3 victims, one seas crescendo tweeter, 2 seas excel chassis....
@andy19191
if i understand you correct, same old situation. speakers are like food, pizza or spagetthi, a matter of taste.with coloration of the pa chassis.
mixed up with the room (thanks for that reminder, i forgot it).
what are the behavior of high effeciency speakers at really low spl ? are they performing better then speakers with, eg say 86db/1w ?
or is this effect also depending at the cone area ? more is better ?
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Efficiency or cone area makes no difference in perception at low SPL.
The equal loudness contour of your hearing response does make a difference in perception.
Most (young) people with average hearing can only start to hear 31.5Hz (Low B fundamental on a 5 string bass) at 60dB, 60dB more SPL than the minimum of audibility at 4000Hz, where hearing is most sensitive.
@weltersys wow ! thank you !
i had to google an article for a better understanding of this.
well, i see there are not really benefits of having high effecieny speakers, so i think i my new project will based on a question i had all the time.
narrow baffle 3 way. because all my speakers where more or less hugh bathtubes (150L+) in the past and i was always asking myself, what if .... if its narrow.
and at least it doesnt eat that space in the living room.
thx to all for your input, it was important to me to find a decision.
because all the happy reviews of builders of such HE speakers, well i saw them from a critical side in case of the builders "honeymoon effect".
i had to google an article for a better understanding of this.
well, i see there are not really benefits of having high effecieny speakers, so i think i my new project will based on a question i had all the time.
narrow baffle 3 way. because all my speakers where more or less hugh bathtubes (150L+) in the past and i was always asking myself, what if .... if its narrow.
and at least it doesnt eat that space in the living room.
thx to all for your input, it was important to me to find a decision.
because all the happy reviews of builders of such HE speakers, well i saw them from a critical side in case of the builders "honeymoon effect".
I am lucky where I live-cats are banned.As they should be.
Well the informed position by those that have made the comparison is that baffle width does not compromise imaging.Some wide baffle speakers have poor imaging but that does not mean wide baffles are the problem-other things in the design are.
I have come close to buying one of the Gravesen kits.Reading between the lines a bit I suspect that of the higher sensitivity speakers the Faital 3WC 10 is probably the safest bet.It seems to be very popular,is reported to sound "normal",goes lower than the 12 inch and probably 15 inch version and the makers have reported comments that it sounds better than some very good speakers they own-including ATC SCM40 and B&W 802D.
Bigger is not always better.If you go for the the 15 inch Faital 3WC the ring dome tweeter is a beauty and suspect might be more neutral than the more expensive beryllium option.Be tweeters have definite sound.
Well the informed position by those that have made the comparison is that baffle width does not compromise imaging.Some wide baffle speakers have poor imaging but that does not mean wide baffles are the problem-other things in the design are.
I have come close to buying one of the Gravesen kits.Reading between the lines a bit I suspect that of the higher sensitivity speakers the Faital 3WC 10 is probably the safest bet.It seems to be very popular,is reported to sound "normal",goes lower than the 12 inch and probably 15 inch version and the makers have reported comments that it sounds better than some very good speakers they own-including ATC SCM40 and B&W 802D.
Bigger is not always better.If you go for the the 15 inch Faital 3WC the ring dome tweeter is a beauty and suspect might be more neutral than the more expensive beryllium option.Be tweeters have definite sound.
You have used the mode Auto detect in your Hypex Filter Designer. Page 6 of the HFD manual:
Instead, choose set via the left and right buttons on the remote if you have several sources and your audio playback won't be interrupted anymore.
Where can I find the full document about "revised" equal-loudness curves?
Do you have a link to that article? I am interested in that same topic!
@jtgofish
from my knowledge the audiosignal (depending on wavelenght at higher frequencies) get multiplicated on each side of the baffle.
this makes a wider soundstage.
i would not say compromise imaging. i would say it changes it.
is this bad or good ? i would not dare to judge it.
after 12 years experimenting with speaker building (or should i say ruining speakers) my personal resueme is:
pizza, spagetthi or wiener schnitzel ? Perfect loudspeakers are a personal taste.
The Cat, well. it has a long haired body guard. therefore i can't ban it for its crimes
good news are, there was a replacement diaphragm for the tweeter and rubbers are on the way for the excels.
i hope i have the skills to replace the rubbers without ruining them. (never did this before).
@sheeple
thank you for that tip !
my intention was it was cause i lowered the input sensitivity.
i had to do that cause the amps didnt switch of after the nad preamp was shut down.
but i will check that when im testing the new enclousures.
from my knowledge the audiosignal (depending on wavelenght at higher frequencies) get multiplicated on each side of the baffle.
this makes a wider soundstage.
i would not say compromise imaging. i would say it changes it.
is this bad or good ? i would not dare to judge it.
after 12 years experimenting with speaker building (or should i say ruining speakers) my personal resueme is:
pizza, spagetthi or wiener schnitzel ? Perfect loudspeakers are a personal taste.
The Cat, well. it has a long haired body guard. therefore i can't ban it for its crimes
good news are, there was a replacement diaphragm for the tweeter and rubbers are on the way for the excels.
i hope i have the skills to replace the rubbers without ruining them. (never did this before).
@sheeple
thank you for that tip !
my intention was it was cause i lowered the input sensitivity.
i had to do that cause the amps didnt switch of after the nad preamp was shut down.
but i will check that when im testing the new enclousures.
Thank you... I knew his issue was with the Hypex setup, and I was trying to remember the details. Then you posted...
No disagreement about the human piece/loudness contours, but was surprised to see that response from @weltersys w/ so much experience in HE. It's been my own experience that larger HE speakers (say 96 on up) still have some semblance of dynamics at low levels whereas the mid 8X dB stuff just sounds flat and dead. And I remember running the old '50's/'60's coaxes (Univ, EV, etc) that didn't need a bunch of juice to "come alive" (light moving masses, low power ratings) at low levels, too. They had other problems, but were quite different in that respect from more "modern" drivers now built to survive much more power. I don't claim to have the answers to those first two innocent sounding questions of the OP, I just think it's all more complicated. It doesn't take away from human preferences exactly analogous to food prefs and the OP might not like HE, I just think everything is worth auditioning and living-with for yourself for a while. FWIW.
Why wouldn’t HE speakers drive the cabinet so hard? SPL equals SPL, only light cones would lead to smaller reaction forces.
And I can only think of one reason they sound better: they have integrated loudness. Put otherwise: at reference levels they compress bass due to lack of Vd. But when linearized at those levels, they probably exaggerate bass at low levels.
And I can only think of one reason they sound better: they have integrated loudness. Put otherwise: at reference levels they compress bass due to lack of Vd. But when linearized at those levels, they probably exaggerate bass at low levels.
that was my understanding or say hope ? for the benefit of HE speakers.
in an appartment with lots of neighbours this might be a benefit.
I have found this strange as the Faital 12 and 10 have close Fs : 42 hz VS 40 hz ! It is hard to understand how the Faital 10 could really reproduce lower notes... or maybe Troels just choosed different bass reflex alignements producing different amplitude (spl) in the low end ?
Now look at some new drivers like the 10RS430 : Fs is 32 hz. Much more interresting than the 40 hz Fs of the 10RS350 used in the Faital 3WC-10 design. At least on the paper and if bass is what matters in the choice.
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Some of those old 1970's 'concept' speakers are so interesting & fascinating.
They would make for interesting projects > especially with todays newer drivers
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/469852173604911228/