HEMP FR6.5C vs Fostex 167e

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#23
AdamThorne said:
😎

Construction plans would be good. I was thinking more of design goals and listening impressions of this setup relative to the other fonkens and other 167 boxes. If the builder could take the time for a writeup I would be thankful.
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I'll give it a try:

The design goal of the Fonken167 was to approach the same balance of bass control / extension and midrange imaging with the larger driver that we find the 127 excels at.

Obviously(?) even with similar enclosure design/ tuning strategy, it's not particularly difficult to achieve more dynamics, weight and extension in the lower octaves with the 167 vs the 127.

However, AFAIC, except for the raw sensitivity difference, which is not an issue for my own music listening, the smaller driver simply out-finesses its larger sibling in all aspects of midrange and top-end performance - tonality, texture, intimacy, inner detail.

The 167 enclosures pictured are playing in an extended open space concept room of at least 5000ft^3, while my 2 listening spaces are 1500 and 2900ft^3 respectively. In the smallest of these rooms, the 167 is simply overpowering - but more than acceptable in the middle sized space.

Full disclosure - these listening impressions are all based on fully EnABLed drivers (complete with phase plugs in the case of 167), and for the most part with low powered SET or PP tube amps.

So far, the only other 167 system I've experienced recently was the Demetri - quite a brute of an enclosure when built with 38mm side walls and top panels.

YMMV
 
#24
Tripmaster said:
Hi Chris

I might be able to reposition the furniture slightly. Its an odd shaped room with radiators, windows and doors just where you don't need them.

How close from the mouth of the horn can an object be without affecting the sound?
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That's perhaps a better question for Scott to answer, but my intuition would suggest at least a couple of meters either side, which of course is not very practical in your situation.

It could well be that a floor loaded terminus such as the Brines FT1600 or similar would be a better match for your particular room - no matter where you find space for the cabinets, the floor's in the same place. :angel:
 
#26
"I'll give it a try:"

I'm very thankful! Your insight is appreciated. Perhaps I'll sell the metrinomes and switch down to the smaller driver, since I've a sub to back it up. Or maybe I'll try a sealed setup with the 167. Or ...

Decisions, decisions...
 
#27
To add to what Chris said... the conceptual point of the Fonken bass loading is to achieve bass augmentation that is required of drivers that were designed primamrily for vented enclosures yet to avoid the problems inherent in a typical bass reflex design. The major problem being that T/S parameters change with the drive level. In its simpliest conclusion based on this observation one could say that a BR is really only properly tuned for 1 level... turn it up, turn it down (or just play music with dynamics in it) and the bass tuning goes out of alignment.

Quarter-wave designs (ML-TL/ML-V) go a long ways by using a high length to w & d aspect ratio to have the quarter-wave dominate the LF response... the port then just acts as a filter to improve the LP function of the terminus and similify the design. Having built many of these i found that i was still often prone to stuffing the port.

The Fonken approaches it in another way. I model a vented box with a very particular shaped knee and then a purposely use a long, very high aspect ratio vent to effectively add a resistance to the port (i guess analogous to the grid stopper in electronics) -- this pushes it towards aperiodic in a sense. Experience gives me an idea of where the bass performance is going to end up, but some iterative builds are often necessary to get it right. You get less bass than with a QW design, but with the drivers we use the upside is more control & finesse in the bass, and less stress on the midrange from trying to do that bass.

Scott has adopted this concept for the Chang family of boxes and has added the concept of horn loading the ports which adds its own set of benefits. For instance Brynn & Gabriel use the Classic GR Fonken as a starting point. Brynn sounds amazingly like GR Fonken but with even more bass control (and no need for stands)

dave
 
#32
Well in defense of the FR6.5, it's a lot smoother than any stock Fostex I've ever heard. I enjoy the driver.

It sounds great in the TF6.5 cab as seen on the HA site. It's a tall cabinet - about 48". But you'd need 2 pair of drivers! (front and back).

The troubles with the company aside, the drivers are nice.
 
#34
panomaniac said:
Well in defense of the FR6.5, it's a lot smoother than any stock Fostex I've ever heard. I enjoy the driver.

It sounds great in the TF6.5 cab as seen on the HA site. It's a tall cabinet - about 48". But you'd need 2 pair of drivers! (front and back).

The troubles with the company aside, the drivers are nice.
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Thanks

I have emailed Hemp on a couple of occasions over the last few months...and have never received a reply...Its nice to see customer service is a top priority!:xeye:

Richard
 
#36
I have moved the sofa slightly to one side and adjusted my current speaker. Will the window opening cause a problem, i.e. non solid wall?

There are couple of other places in my lounge I could place the speakers, but there are only stud walls there (timber frame).

Thanks

Richard
 

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#38
panomaniac said:
Well in defense of the FR6.5, it's a lot smoother than any stock Fostex I've ever heard. I enjoy the driver.

It sounds great in the TF6.5 cab as seen on the HA site. It's a tall cabinet - about 48". But you'd need 2 pair of drivers! (front and back).

The troubles with the company aside, the drivers are nice.
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Mike, I don't think the sonic merits of the HA drivers were ever in question - however, "troubles aside" is more easily said than accommodated.

I quite liked the FR4.5 in 2 of the 3 enclosures I've heard them in - Brynn (still using those) and Metronomes. The mini-Onkens style that Jeff made were a near miss as far as tuning/volume was concerned.

By all accounts the White Lotus "Demetri" based design was a great performer as well - but we don't need to beat a dead horse on the subject of trying to market a commercial product based on an unavailable key component. :hot:





Tripmaster said:
I have moved the sofa slightly to one side and adjusted my current speaker. Will the window opening cause a problem, i.e. non solid wall?

There are couple of other places in my lounge I could place the speakers, but there are only stud walls there (timber frame).

Thanks

Richard
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Did you notice much of an improvement with the stand-mounters in this placement?

If you can achieve reasonably symmetrical placement in relation to side walls and absorptive surfaces, and the design doesn't have rear firing ambience tweeters or horn mouths, I'd think you could be happy - provided the windows don't actually rattle.
 
#39
chrisb said:


Did you notice much of an improvement with the stand-mounters in this placement?

If you can achieve reasonably symmetrical placement in relation to side walls and absorptive surfaces, and the design doesn't have rear firing ambience tweeters or horn mouths, I'd think you could be happy - provided the windows don't actually rattle.
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Hi Chris

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my constant questions.

I haven't tried the speakers in that position, I moved them before I went to work today. The sofas have been pull out and the wife still appears to be happy...which is good to know.

How would you describe the sonic signature of the half chilli? I haven't heard one of these drivers before.

Thanks

Richard
 
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