Hello all
I am getting very mixed up about selecting a controller. My loads are electric propulsion and audio amplifiers. Max load would be around 1.2kw total
Panel are 4x 12v 350w
Battery is a 12v 100AH LiFePO4
Power to the amp modules and electric motor controller will be delivered from the battery by using a 12v to 48v up DC-DC up converter rated 1.8kw
I would really appreciate some assistance in selecting an appropriate charge controller and if the item linked below is suitable for interim use. It's the 100A model in the listing
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/226084981529
Saving up for a high end unit from this list linked below
https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/po...trollers/victron-smartsolar-mppt-controllers/
Ideally, on a good day, I would like to draw about 700w for the motor and no more than 30wrms for the amplifiers while cruising without draining the batteries. The project is logged here but in shambles regarding power up
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ofers-and-two-cats.416718/page-3#post-7784860
Thanks and regards
Randy
I am getting very mixed up about selecting a controller. My loads are electric propulsion and audio amplifiers. Max load would be around 1.2kw total
Panel are 4x 12v 350w
Battery is a 12v 100AH LiFePO4
Power to the amp modules and electric motor controller will be delivered from the battery by using a 12v to 48v up DC-DC up converter rated 1.8kw
I would really appreciate some assistance in selecting an appropriate charge controller and if the item linked below is suitable for interim use. It's the 100A model in the listing
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/226084981529
Saving up for a high end unit from this list linked below
https://www.outbackmarine.com.au/po...trollers/victron-smartsolar-mppt-controllers/
Ideally, on a good day, I would like to draw about 700w for the motor and no more than 30wrms for the amplifiers while cruising without draining the batteries. The project is logged here but in shambles regarding power up
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ofers-and-two-cats.416718/page-3#post-7784860
Thanks and regards
Randy
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...8VUJrNeL&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:
By my limited understanding, this 150A unit linked covers my 1.4kw of panel input power. Am I understanding correctly that with an MPPT controller, the panels are rigged in series for max volts?
What I am getting mixed up/confused with is the output current
Rated Charging Current: 150A
Rated Output Current: 50A
USB Output: 5V, 1A
Solar Panel PV Input Peak Power: 150A: <1800W
Charging current 150A, is this the current from the panels to the controller or from the controller to the battery?
Output current 50A, is this the current from the controller to the battery or the right most pair of terminals labelled load? Voltage at this terminal?
I hope this controller can serve as an interim budget unit to draw around 80A from the system on a good day without draining the battery but since I am confused about the output current, if 50A is all that's coming from the controller to the battery then that would be less supply than draw
By my limited understanding, this 150A unit linked covers my 1.4kw of panel input power. Am I understanding correctly that with an MPPT controller, the panels are rigged in series for max volts?
What I am getting mixed up/confused with is the output current
Rated Charging Current: 150A
Rated Output Current: 50A
USB Output: 5V, 1A
Solar Panel PV Input Peak Power: 150A: <1800W
Charging current 150A, is this the current from the panels to the controller or from the controller to the battery?
Output current 50A, is this the current from the controller to the battery or the right most pair of terminals labelled load? Voltage at this terminal?
I hope this controller can serve as an interim budget unit to draw around 80A from the system on a good day without draining the battery but since I am confused about the output current, if 50A is all that's coming from the controller to the battery then that would be less supply than draw
If I understand correctly from reading online, then the 150A controller linked in the previous post is my best bet
It accepts my 1.4kw panel array
I should have the array in series for MPPT performance
It delivers 120A charging current to the battery and I can take my motor power from the battery
I can connect the 12v to 48v 1.8kw up converter to the 50A DC load connectors on the controller and supply the amplifier modules with that
The battery will stay topped up if my cruise drain is below 1.4kw, on a good day
The battery will stay topped up if my at anchor SPL uses under 1.4kw, on a good day
I think I should be able to make good use of this unit. It's compatible with a 48v battery for a future upgrade. I'll order this one and see how it goes
It accepts my 1.4kw panel array
I should have the array in series for MPPT performance
It delivers 120A charging current to the battery and I can take my motor power from the battery
I can connect the 12v to 48v 1.8kw up converter to the 50A DC load connectors on the controller and supply the amplifier modules with that
The battery will stay topped up if my cruise drain is below 1.4kw, on a good day
The battery will stay topped up if my at anchor SPL uses under 1.4kw, on a good day
I think I should be able to make good use of this unit. It's compatible with a 48v battery for a future upgrade. I'll order this one and see how it goes
@Randy Bassinga those 4 panels connected in series will deliver the current of a single panel at 4x voltage. MPPT, definitely. Series connected panels keep the required wire ga down to a less expensive, easier to work with cable, smaller, also less expensive charge controllers can be ganged together as needed, another definitely, unless shading is a factor.
Parallel all 4 and you're dealing with higher current but this will also charge your 12v(14.4v) faster.
Series/Parallel with a pair to starboard and the other to port may be best, again, depending on what shading might be expected.
FWIW, I use Victron Smart Solar CC's.
For my applications, having the Bluetooth connection is convenient and saves time/money. Pull up to a clients system, open the app to see current conditions + a month long log of power production. Gangable up to 16 units if memory serves.
Parallel all 4 and you're dealing with higher current but this will also charge your 12v(14.4v) faster.
Series/Parallel with a pair to starboard and the other to port may be best, again, depending on what shading might be expected.
FWIW, I use Victron Smart Solar CC's.
For my applications, having the Bluetooth connection is convenient and saves time/money. Pull up to a clients system, open the app to see current conditions + a month long log of power production. Gangable up to 16 units if memory serves.
first you need to specify the 12V PV panel, what is the open voltage, at what voltage is the MPP. if the MPP voltage is above 15V, then you can place all panels in parellell, but I do not trust a chinese 100A charger to be rated at that current, so take 2 charge controllers, one for each 2 panels. (them you can place 2 panels in the same orientation) . If the MPP voltage is below 14V, then place 2 panels in series , and you need to check the mppt charger for max voltage, 2x the open voltage of the PV panels. There are many copycat chinese manufacturers of famous big brands. I had good succes with makeskyblue brand controllers, I added a heatsink on the back so the fan does not run. the higher current models have 3 paralell buck converters in time interleave mode to reduce the ripple current for the caps. no synchronous buck type however.
Solar panels work as diodes. Parallelling f.ex. 2 strings with 2 series- connected panels, one in either direction, on the same MPPT works great. The MPPT input is the limit. Remember to check max no load panel voltage, there can diff 10 volts between loaded and unloaded.
There have been lots of discussions about strings in solar forums, salesmen wants to sell inverters and optimizers.
Figge
There have been lots of discussions about strings in solar forums, salesmen wants to sell inverters and optimizers.
Figge
In my other house I had a 48V battery system and 84V mpp thin film panels, all in paralell. The almost 3/2 step down ratio was ideal to minimize ripple current in the 3 phase buck converter described above, although I added film caps to the alu caps to reduce the ripple current strain.
in hindsight I doubt if your panels are 12V 350W. that would mean a current of almost 30A, well above the spceification of the wire and connector. Most likely the panel is spec`d at 24V or mpp voltage of around 30V and openvoltage of 40V, 72 cells. check that first.
This is the panel listing
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/395649690079
I ordered 4x of them for $71 each. Almost too good a price, so I am wary. Especially since this is my first solar outing. I don't really understand much of greater details yet apart from trying to attempt to match panel output to controller ratings and a suitably rated controller for my unlimited range @ slow cruise speeds target
Do they appear to be 350 watters?
My electric propulsion consumes 700w at full throttle with 65lbs of thrust with the stock propeller. Of course, a prop will be matched to the craft. The current motor is a 12v Watersnake Shadow mk2. We can discount audio power underway as 20w would be plenty to achieve louder than comfy on board SPL
I couldn't find an affordable Victron to suit, and having difficulty even selecting the right one. I think the 150/70 might be the smallest to suit the use
Will add two more panels to get series 72v for even better MPPT performance, does this help much? Will be over controller max input rating of 1.4kw if the panels fire at full rating. Located in semi tropical Hervey Bay, QLD. It's usually pretty fair weather but what are the chances that the panels (if true 350w) would develop the full 2.1kw. I would hope that the overlarge array would realistically produce a healthy level close to the desired 1.4kw system potential
There is room for 8x such panels on the slightly inclined roof. If I just ordered another 4 panels and went 96v 2.8kw array, would having a 150A circuit breaker help protect the controller on the days the sun blazes? Can blanking a panel or two help allow resetting the circuit breaker on those days?
If I understood this before, I would have ordered 6-8 panels for even greater savings
The thought also didn't occur to me that 1.2kw is 1.2kw. I went for the fattest 12v LiFePO4 that I could afford. I didn't realise that a 25AH 48v battery is the same as a 12v 100AH. Still not too late. That 12v battery can be used for now and the controller allows a 48v upgrade later
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/395649690079
I ordered 4x of them for $71 each. Almost too good a price, so I am wary. Especially since this is my first solar outing. I don't really understand much of greater details yet apart from trying to attempt to match panel output to controller ratings and a suitably rated controller for my unlimited range @ slow cruise speeds target
Do they appear to be 350 watters?
My electric propulsion consumes 700w at full throttle with 65lbs of thrust with the stock propeller. Of course, a prop will be matched to the craft. The current motor is a 12v Watersnake Shadow mk2. We can discount audio power underway as 20w would be plenty to achieve louder than comfy on board SPL
I couldn't find an affordable Victron to suit, and having difficulty even selecting the right one. I think the 150/70 might be the smallest to suit the use
Will add two more panels to get series 72v for even better MPPT performance, does this help much? Will be over controller max input rating of 1.4kw if the panels fire at full rating. Located in semi tropical Hervey Bay, QLD. It's usually pretty fair weather but what are the chances that the panels (if true 350w) would develop the full 2.1kw. I would hope that the overlarge array would realistically produce a healthy level close to the desired 1.4kw system potential
There is room for 8x such panels on the slightly inclined roof. If I just ordered another 4 panels and went 96v 2.8kw array, would having a 150A circuit breaker help protect the controller on the days the sun blazes? Can blanking a panel or two help allow resetting the circuit breaker on those days?
If I understood this before, I would have ordered 6-8 panels for even greater savings
The thought also didn't occur to me that 1.2kw is 1.2kw. I went for the fattest 12v LiFePO4 that I could afford. I didn't realise that a 25AH 48v battery is the same as a 12v 100AH. Still not too late. That 12v battery can be used for now and the controller allows a 48v upgrade later
Regarding testing the panels. I can use a multimeter to monitor a panel raw voltage over the period of a day. Would an array of 400w of light bulbs be a suitable load to monitor power output? I am a bit mixed up about what type of device should I use to measure the current through the blub array load
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the size of the panel is approximately 1/4 of a 500-600W large modern high efficiency solar panel. I do count 33 cells, so at best they are 175W, my guess they are 150W. With 33 cells you can expect and MPP voltage of 18V, and open voltage of about 25V. take a single panel, short it with a current meter, and measure the current at full sunlight. Cover the panel before you disconnect the short to prevent arcing. A dc clampmeter is very convenient, that saves you fumbling with extra connectors. To calculate the panel power, just take the measured short current, take 8% off and multiply with the 18V mpp voltage.
Thankfully, you are having the opposite effect. I anticipated them to be really around 100w each, but 150w is better. This is a good thing as 8x panels in series won't overload the controller but still raise the voltage of the array. AUD $71 per panel is still a very good price for a true 150w panel. I anticipate that around 350w will get me a mackerel trolling cruise speed of 3 knots and a good 96dB max average bass on board. I do hope I am still in the green for this
As per the project thread. The 48v upgrade when it happens would include a petrol 48v 5kw EV range extender for full craft speed when required. And I can also eventually accommodate a total of 16 such panels
The controller is ordered to start making use of the current 4 panels, I have high hopes for even a 400w at best system. I think the only thing left to sort controller wise is a suitable Victron unit for a future controller upgrade
victron's are the best. their background stems from boat power supplies, so the environmental protection is always there. Proud to be dutch. Usually the only reason the inverters break down is by reverse connecting batteries or lightning strikes. That is why they do not have a large repair department.
Do you feel the 150/80 from the smart solar range would be suitable? It's the only one that I can sort of afford at the time of the planned 48v upgrade
Had a good think about items in hand and to be acquired and redid the electrical system config list in the project thread original post. The boat building part is my background, but electrical systems are new for me. As is the audio engineering. The real challenge for the project will be the speaker box types for a ported system on a very wet boat, and the design of the sub boxes and superstructure to augment the bass response down to the low 30s. I won't even try to touch that yet. First assemble the hulls with a flat deck and get the craft powered up with the Watersnake
Compared to a 100w flex panel from a reputable manufacturer I use, these panels would appear to be ~75W based on size alone.
I just looked at the AU$ and it looks like that cost about $50 US. That is ~ $0.66/W (US) which is a fantastic deal IF it proves out power productuon wise. I can't help but be skeptical based on pricing here but you are much closer to the manufacturer and I'm not at all familiar with AU import tariffs/taxes etc.
The 150/70 is way more than necessary for 4 of these panels. If my output guesstimate is close, a 100/20 smartsolar ($90US) would suffice for series or parallel configurations and support up to 48V charging.. moving up to the 100/30 might be the smart move in terms of flexibility. Additional controllers can be added if future additions require more capacity.
For boat use, 4 x 12v batteries in series, at whatever ah capacity you choose may be preferable to a single 48v with the same ah rating. I do think in terms of sailing monohull applications when considering balance, trim and space available for battery bank installations. YMMV.
On batteries, I have been using the relatively inexpensive, well regarded LiTime units. They're under $300US and carry a 5yr warranty. A lot of people are happy with the Chins brand which come in at ~$200US for a 12v/100ah. I haven't tried them personally and have no idea what their warranty is like though.
I recently spec'd a number of EG4 48v/100ah rack mount batteries to back up a sizeable surveillance system... 1200 bucks, 10 year warranty and directly integrates with a number of popular controllers. Worth a look if you're ever putting together a land based system.
I just looked at the AU$ and it looks like that cost about $50 US. That is ~ $0.66/W (US) which is a fantastic deal IF it proves out power productuon wise. I can't help but be skeptical based on pricing here but you are much closer to the manufacturer and I'm not at all familiar with AU import tariffs/taxes etc.
The 150/70 is way more than necessary for 4 of these panels. If my output guesstimate is close, a 100/20 smartsolar ($90US) would suffice for series or parallel configurations and support up to 48V charging.. moving up to the 100/30 might be the smart move in terms of flexibility. Additional controllers can be added if future additions require more capacity.
For boat use, 4 x 12v batteries in series, at whatever ah capacity you choose may be preferable to a single 48v with the same ah rating. I do think in terms of sailing monohull applications when considering balance, trim and space available for battery bank installations. YMMV.
On batteries, I have been using the relatively inexpensive, well regarded LiTime units. They're under $300US and carry a 5yr warranty. A lot of people are happy with the Chins brand which come in at ~$200US for a 12v/100ah. I haven't tried them personally and have no idea what their warranty is like though.
I recently spec'd a number of EG4 48v/100ah rack mount batteries to back up a sizeable surveillance system... 1200 bucks, 10 year warranty and directly integrates with a number of popular controllers. Worth a look if you're ever putting together a land based system.
Thanks for that, man. I have a multihull bias and the craft getting fitted out in the current project is a WindKart beachcat for donor HDPE hulls. The hulls are low displacement but
Target is a 3 knot trolling speed with infinite range on a good day, and the motor can do at least 6 knots while drawing max 50A at WOT. Around 70A ability from the charge current for the total electrical load under WOT conditions would be ideal. That would still keep the battery fully charged. Did workout that I have rooftop space for 12x these panels, so will add 8 more as soon as I have some funds for them.
The details are linked below, including the battery supplier being used for this, as well as the rest of the powertrain/large loads. I have also tried to create an upgrade path to an eventual 48v system.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/bass-shelter-subwoofers-and-two-cats.416718/post-7787773
I really appreciate the virtues of multihulls but haven't sailed any other than a Hobie many years ago. Fun, fast and definitely suited for warmer climates than we have here. We see far fewer cats up here, most of those I do see are full-on cruisers with large bridge decks.
It's probably good fortune that I haven't been ask to bid work on any of them. Due to the low numbers on the used market and higher moorage cost, I try to avert my eyes to avoid getting sucked in.
Being more easily driven, I have seen a handful of smallish electric power cats over the last couple of years. That said, if I read things correctly, you're expecting 6kts out of 1hp? Is that a tested result or calculation? Impressive if attainable.
I'm looking forward to seeing your project come together.
When your first 4 panels arrive, after you test the open circuit voltage and short circuit current, I'd suggest wiring up a controller, mock up your panel placement and charge a deep cycle, LiFePO4 or lead acid and watch the power production/charging output over the course of a full day. The charge controller logging function will give you a real world result to base further calcs on. Subtracting the expected efficency losses from your wiring, inverter and dc-dc converter should give you a solid point to work from.
It's probably good fortune that I haven't been ask to bid work on any of them. Due to the low numbers on the used market and higher moorage cost, I try to avert my eyes to avoid getting sucked in.
Being more easily driven, I have seen a handful of smallish electric power cats over the last couple of years. That said, if I read things correctly, you're expecting 6kts out of 1hp? Is that a tested result or calculation? Impressive if attainable.
I'm looking forward to seeing your project come together.
When your first 4 panels arrive, after you test the open circuit voltage and short circuit current, I'd suggest wiring up a controller, mock up your panel placement and charge a deep cycle, LiFePO4 or lead acid and watch the power production/charging output over the course of a full day. The charge controller logging function will give you a real world result to base further calcs on. Subtracting the expected efficency losses from your wiring, inverter and dc-dc converter should give you a solid point to work from.
Isn't it a bit late to ask after you bought them?
The text of the panels says
Both is not possible to bend. If it got tempered glass then it will fold the Aluminum after each row of cells if the cells are individually covered by the glass. If not, you can either bend it and there's no tempered glass for protection or you can't bend it.
The product description that came up when I followed the link didn't mention aluminum or glass... or solar panel.
