Hi,
I plan on building Troels Gravesen “The Loudspeaker 3” to replace my Audio Technology 3WC sometime in the new year. Its an itch I need to scratch.
I have limited woodworking / soldering skills (practical skills in general!) and would really appreciate if any of you could share any useful tips with me.
My intention is to use either 21mm or 24mm birch ply and get the panel sizes cut to size with the driver holes CNC routered out by others and assemble the cabinets myself. I plan on staining the finish side of the panels before assembling (as Troels practices) and use a peg board to cable tie the crossover components to.
I’ve seen these square clamps to achieve the right angles are they suitable, or are there better versions to use?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/39526735...=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
My existing speakers I have lined the inside with 5mm (10kg) barrier shield product and plan on doing the same again as I immediately noticed that the speaker / cabinet sounded quieter. Website with date sheet is: https://www.cmsdanskin.co.uk/indust...c-material-for-industrial-use-type-wb-epdmbs/
I was then going to use 25mm self-adhesive foam sound insulation to create a poor mans version of “No Rez”……do you think that would be beneficial?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14129530...ar=440412235067&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
I also found it hugely beneficial to stuff the cabinets with rockwool, so I plan to compare this to the wool roll included in the kit..
For the horn itself, I have read about people dampening the insider face of this, I was thinking of using a 2 / 3mm bitumen sheet and then using the 25mm foam insulation on top…..Is this a good idea?
I would appreciate any soldering tips….what is your opinion on using spade connectors for the drive unit connection? I remember trying to solder the speaker cable to the drive unit connectors and the pull from the magnets was insane, it did pull the iron towards the magnet a few times tbh and I struggled holding the wire still while the solder set….
Under my existing speakers, I am using industrial springs to isolate the speaker from the stand and was planning on doing the same again by using two steel flat plates, front and back that span across the speaker and go out the sides…
https://www.christiegrey.com/industrial/enclosed-spring-mountings/
I would really appreciate your thought and advice so this build can hopefully be a bit better than the last. Thank you
I plan on building Troels Gravesen “The Loudspeaker 3” to replace my Audio Technology 3WC sometime in the new year. Its an itch I need to scratch.
I have limited woodworking / soldering skills (practical skills in general!) and would really appreciate if any of you could share any useful tips with me.
My intention is to use either 21mm or 24mm birch ply and get the panel sizes cut to size with the driver holes CNC routered out by others and assemble the cabinets myself. I plan on staining the finish side of the panels before assembling (as Troels practices) and use a peg board to cable tie the crossover components to.
I’ve seen these square clamps to achieve the right angles are they suitable, or are there better versions to use?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/39526735...=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
My existing speakers I have lined the inside with 5mm (10kg) barrier shield product and plan on doing the same again as I immediately noticed that the speaker / cabinet sounded quieter. Website with date sheet is: https://www.cmsdanskin.co.uk/indust...c-material-for-industrial-use-type-wb-epdmbs/
I was then going to use 25mm self-adhesive foam sound insulation to create a poor mans version of “No Rez”……do you think that would be beneficial?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14129530...ar=440412235067&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
I also found it hugely beneficial to stuff the cabinets with rockwool, so I plan to compare this to the wool roll included in the kit..
For the horn itself, I have read about people dampening the insider face of this, I was thinking of using a 2 / 3mm bitumen sheet and then using the 25mm foam insulation on top…..Is this a good idea?
I would appreciate any soldering tips….what is your opinion on using spade connectors for the drive unit connection? I remember trying to solder the speaker cable to the drive unit connectors and the pull from the magnets was insane, it did pull the iron towards the magnet a few times tbh and I struggled holding the wire still while the solder set….
Under my existing speakers, I am using industrial springs to isolate the speaker from the stand and was planning on doing the same again by using two steel flat plates, front and back that span across the speaker and go out the sides…
https://www.christiegrey.com/industrial/enclosed-spring-mountings/
I would really appreciate your thought and advice so this build can hopefully be a bit better than the last. Thank you
Welcome to the world of speaker building!
Birch ply is a good material, but medium density fiberboard (MDF) is a little better and a little cheaper. Of course: after you add cost for veneer and glue you may end up paying more.
When I glue up a box, if I use butt joints (as you probably will), I find the edges often don't fit perfectly. To fix this, I make the overlapping board slightly wider than necessary, then sand it down to make the corner perfect. This will not be possible if you stain the wood before assembly.
I recommend quick disconnects for attaching wire to drivers.
But wait until you have the drivers so you know what size to get.
It looks like the woofers already have binding posts, so bare wire will connect to those.
last: I recommend not using springs to isolate the speakers. You actually want to do the opposite. It's best to couple the speaker to the floor. Springs will allow the cabinet to vibrate, which sounds bad. You want the cabinet to be rock solid and not moving - only the drivers are moving.
Birch ply is a good material, but medium density fiberboard (MDF) is a little better and a little cheaper. Of course: after you add cost for veneer and glue you may end up paying more.
When I glue up a box, if I use butt joints (as you probably will), I find the edges often don't fit perfectly. To fix this, I make the overlapping board slightly wider than necessary, then sand it down to make the corner perfect. This will not be possible if you stain the wood before assembly.
I recommend quick disconnects for attaching wire to drivers.
It looks like the woofers already have binding posts, so bare wire will connect to those.
last: I recommend not using springs to isolate the speakers. You actually want to do the opposite. It's best to couple the speaker to the floor. Springs will allow the cabinet to vibrate, which sounds bad. You want the cabinet to be rock solid and not moving - only the drivers are moving.
Adequate bracing and wool lining is better than the acoustic foam. I speak from experience. It's easy to overdamp a cabinet.
MDF is less expensive but not empirically "better" than a high quality plywood for speaker cabinets. Mostly, it's just heavier and the dust is awful.
Tech Ingredients on YouTube did a comparison.
If you're going to have someone else cut the panels, is it possible for the same person to make dados for you? It would aid the gluing and clamping portion immensely. Especially when it appears you do not have a router for trimming. Otherwise, butt joints are plenty strong. You may want to the seal the interior corners of the joints to make sure there are no leaks.
MDF is less expensive but not empirically "better" than a high quality plywood for speaker cabinets. Mostly, it's just heavier and the dust is awful.
Tech Ingredients on YouTube did a comparison.
I'm not sure about those clamps you link to. They look a bit on the small side. And if you're getting the panels accurately CNC cut for you, that's half the battle. Look at the workshop pictures on Troels' site, and use the type of clamps he uses, I'd say.
As you probably realise, you're going to get lots of conflicting advice on here. For example, the preference of @ByronInPortland for MDF isn't universally shared. Damping sheet for the cabinets is another controversial one. Personally, I like it. As for damping the horn, you mean the back of it? Bitumen could be tricky to shape, and I'm not sure what the foam would do. Wouldn't the damping sheet you mention for the cabs also do the horn? Anyway, good luck - it's quite a project!
As you probably realise, you're going to get lots of conflicting advice on here. For example, the preference of @ByronInPortland for MDF isn't universally shared. Damping sheet for the cabinets is another controversial one. Personally, I like it. As for damping the horn, you mean the back of it? Bitumen could be tricky to shape, and I'm not sure what the foam would do. Wouldn't the damping sheet you mention for the cabs also do the horn? Anyway, good luck - it's quite a project!
Staining birch ply is near impossible.
As far as I know there is only One person on the planet that has worked out how to do this.
And he is keeping the information to himself.
As far as I know there is only One person on the planet that has worked out how to do this.
And he is keeping the information to himself.
That video again. One of those where you havetoknow morethnhe does to know when he is spewing misinformation.
dave
I have used quality plywood for the last 2 and a half decades. MDF is not well suited to making loudspeakers.
Tha video has been posted over & over, i watched it some time ago, and only kept the bit in my mind that much of it is label BS.
dabe
Tha video has been posted over & over, i watched it some time ago, and only kept the bit in my mind that much of it is label BS.
dabe
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In my finding, MDF is fine if you plan to render it effectively non-resonant.
Doing so tends to make the character of the speaker more vulnerable to smaller issues, and many find the sound of a more resonant cabinet to be a regulating influence while others see it as a limitation.
Doing so tends to make the character of the speaker more vulnerable to smaller issues, and many find the sound of a more resonant cabinet to be a regulating influence while others see it as a limitation.
We'll have to agree to disagree, but if MDF is preferred, then need to either brace it much more and/or increase panel thickness to get the cab 'stiff' enough.
+1 add a massive base and/or a removable top plate or potted plant to mass load it to the floor/foundation.
Thanks for all the replies. Just getting up ready for work, so I'll watch that video later.
I do actual have a router and the hole cutting jig from the first build, but my farther did most of the work the last time and with him being older now I don't want to ask/burden him again, plus we did struggle to get the hole sizes spot on. Mdf vs birch ply.... I'm going with ply as I know it's stronger plus it saves sanding / finishing to the same level. Plus if I'm spending all this money, I don't mind spending a bit more to get someone to do a decent job for me... Without completely costing a fortune.... I'll also pace myself this time, as last time I was in such a rush / excitement just to complete everything.
There is a build on troels site by Dominic, if I could get anything that looks like that, I would be very happy. I'm just thinking of how I could encorporate a grill, without the double box.
What is a dado, in the speaker building sense? Are you referring to the strips of timber user to frame the opening? And suggesting these could be used as corner braces too.... Sounds like a good idea but at what point do these start to affect cabinet volume?
Another question I have, how to secure the front panel with no screws? Do you just glue it down? On my existing speakers the front panel is screwed to the cabinet, using wood screw.... I used bolts and nylock nuts on all the drivers and want to do the same, having the front panel removable helps with access to remove the driver's. Is there a way to cover the screws somehow?
I also struggled with gasket material, so seal the driver to the cabinet....i managed to cut some very thin, laminate floor underlay type plastic sheet material, but I felt it was a poor solution tbh.
I do actual have a router and the hole cutting jig from the first build, but my farther did most of the work the last time and with him being older now I don't want to ask/burden him again, plus we did struggle to get the hole sizes spot on. Mdf vs birch ply.... I'm going with ply as I know it's stronger plus it saves sanding / finishing to the same level. Plus if I'm spending all this money, I don't mind spending a bit more to get someone to do a decent job for me... Without completely costing a fortune.... I'll also pace myself this time, as last time I was in such a rush / excitement just to complete everything.
There is a build on troels site by Dominic, if I could get anything that looks like that, I would be very happy. I'm just thinking of how I could encorporate a grill, without the double box.
What is a dado, in the speaker building sense? Are you referring to the strips of timber user to frame the opening? And suggesting these could be used as corner braces too.... Sounds like a good idea but at what point do these start to affect cabinet volume?
Another question I have, how to secure the front panel with no screws? Do you just glue it down? On my existing speakers the front panel is screwed to the cabinet, using wood screw.... I used bolts and nylock nuts on all the drivers and want to do the same, having the front panel removable helps with access to remove the driver's. Is there a way to cover the screws somehow?
I also struggled with gasket material, so seal the driver to the cabinet....i managed to cut some very thin, laminate floor underlay type plastic sheet material, but I felt it was a poor solution tbh.
For ply, recommend stepping to no void marine grade...... Dado as in milling a recess to flush mount drivers.......there's various types of 'button' or bulk strips of Velcro and similar materials for blind panel removal nowadays........ Nema 3, 4 neoprene gasket material is where it's at, though most DIYers either buy pre-cut from Parts Express or similar or make their own using the grade sold at big box stores to insulate around windows, doors, A/C units, etc., with wax paper for super thin, but I'm decades out of date, so YMMV.
Your internal braces would go into the dado cut. It helps line things up for the glue-up. It's also stronger than a butt joint.
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In the image above, the dado slot would be appropriate for a brace. See the image in the link below to a "rabbet" joint that would be appropriate for joining two side walls. Same concept, just different terminology sometimes used by woodworking folks.
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/wood-joinery-types-3536631
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/wood-joinery-types-3536631
Dado (in this sense) is North American English. In British English, the word dado refers to the lower part of a wall, when panelled or decorated differently, often topped with a dado rail. As so often, we're divided by a common language.
I was actually thinking to myself last night that a rebated joint / dado joint would be a good method to make sure the panels don't on the glue out of position ..i could ask whoever cuts the panels for me to do this.. but I think I'm going to have to get help / learn how to use a router as troels recommends measuring the actual drivers before cutting the holes vs going off a data sheet. I suppose I could alway give someone the measurement but I don't really trust myself not to mess it up.... Vs practicing on some waste wood first..
Also watched a few videos on YouTube to finish birch ply.... Omso oil clear satin was favoured by two people and looked good. This happens to be the same product I used on my wooden floors in the house, so at least the rest would eventually be used.
Also watched a few videos on YouTube to finish birch ply.... Omso oil clear satin was favoured by two people and looked good. This happens to be the same product I used on my wooden floors in the house, so at least the rest would eventually be used.
Hi everyone, can I have a sense check with some ideas.
I was planning to fix the drivers to the front baffle using bolts with nylocks on, and then screw the baffle to the speaker cabinet. My thinking was at least this way the drivers won’t work loose over time, and with the removable front, I can easily access the back of the drivers.
I’m just thinking if, I construct the speakers this way, are they just going to look too DIY? even though I intent to construct a face fix grill (different from troels design). What is your opinion?
Also, where there are removable panels, even though they screw into the main cabinet, you still see internal battens. What is the purpose of these, is it to strengthen the cabinet, or to increase the surface area / create a seal to the front baffle.
I’m not sure what to do here, as I really want to stick to using the nylocks but maintain easy access to the rear of the speaker. I think access from the back to the nuts would jut be a pain.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I was planning to fix the drivers to the front baffle using bolts with nylocks on, and then screw the baffle to the speaker cabinet. My thinking was at least this way the drivers won’t work loose over time, and with the removable front, I can easily access the back of the drivers.
I’m just thinking if, I construct the speakers this way, are they just going to look too DIY? even though I intent to construct a face fix grill (different from troels design). What is your opinion?
Also, where there are removable panels, even though they screw into the main cabinet, you still see internal battens. What is the purpose of these, is it to strengthen the cabinet, or to increase the surface area / create a seal to the front baffle.
I’m not sure what to do here, as I really want to stick to using the nylocks but maintain easy access to the rear of the speaker. I think access from the back to the nuts would jut be a pain.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.