Hello,
I am a new poster, and am interested in building a subwoofer that outputs sub-sonic frequencies in the range of 10 - 30 HZ for an audio-visual display that I am currently working on (this is "art" and consists of high speed video work and slowed audio recording of crashing objects....)
You must excuse me, and correct me, (and suggest please!!!) but these are my initial naive thoughts -
I am thinking of an extra-large low-tuned vented system or something else that will give me a really-low-frequency output.
In terms of drivers I am looking at two - the dayton reference 15" woofer - Fs 18Hz, Qes0.49, 500W RMS -
http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant...roduct_Code=RSS390HF4&Category_Code=DaytonRef
Or, alternatively the horrendously expensive Mccauley 6174 18" woofer - Fs 20Hz, Qes 0.38, 800W RMS -
http://mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=126
I have quoted the power handling as I think this will be essential in getting the subwoofer to create this sub-sonic air movements....
I will be running the subwoofer off a big old 300W Perreaux poweramp and the sound will be only present in the 10 - 50Hz range, so higher frequency response is unimportant.
So is there anyone out there who has any suggestions or starting points for the design of ultra-low frequency enclosures? Size is not a factor as long as it is under a cubic metre or so. (Heaviness becomes an issue I am thinking....)
Any suggestions, links, help, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
In Thanks,
Sean.
I am a new poster, and am interested in building a subwoofer that outputs sub-sonic frequencies in the range of 10 - 30 HZ for an audio-visual display that I am currently working on (this is "art" and consists of high speed video work and slowed audio recording of crashing objects....)
You must excuse me, and correct me, (and suggest please!!!) but these are my initial naive thoughts -
I am thinking of an extra-large low-tuned vented system or something else that will give me a really-low-frequency output.
In terms of drivers I am looking at two - the dayton reference 15" woofer - Fs 18Hz, Qes0.49, 500W RMS -
http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant...roduct_Code=RSS390HF4&Category_Code=DaytonRef
Or, alternatively the horrendously expensive Mccauley 6174 18" woofer - Fs 20Hz, Qes 0.38, 800W RMS -
http://mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=126
I have quoted the power handling as I think this will be essential in getting the subwoofer to create this sub-sonic air movements....
I will be running the subwoofer off a big old 300W Perreaux poweramp and the sound will be only present in the 10 - 50Hz range, so higher frequency response is unimportant.
So is there anyone out there who has any suggestions or starting points for the design of ultra-low frequency enclosures? Size is not a factor as long as it is under a cubic metre or so. (Heaviness becomes an issue I am thinking....)
Any suggestions, links, help, etc. would be greatly appreciated.
In Thanks,
Sean.
Oh... guy i am a good English language. now i don't know that what you will use it for.... home or not?😎
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my english works well when i'm not understand. LOL
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my english works well when i'm not understand. LOL
your english is great! better than my speaker-design-skills!!!
this sub will be used in a gallery space (art gallery).
i realise that there will be lots of issues with the size of the gallery, but I want to get a start on researching this thing and finding possibilities.
so a big room, using lots of power, a big enclosure, with a big driver, and only needing frequencies in the range of 10 - 40Hz or therabouts....
i was looking at the sonotube by steve callas mentioned here in the forum - could be a starting point....
thanks for your reply,
sean.
this sub will be used in a gallery space (art gallery).
i realise that there will be lots of issues with the size of the gallery, but I want to get a start on researching this thing and finding possibilities.
so a big room, using lots of power, a big enclosure, with a big driver, and only needing frequencies in the range of 10 - 40Hz or therabouts....
i was looking at the sonotube by steve callas mentioned here in the forum - could be a starting point....
thanks for your reply,
sean.
A word on the difficulty: Reaching 10hz with usable output means using LOTS of drivers. Your hearing threshold is about 95-100db for a 10hz wave. You need clean output without distortion at this frequency, because as the frequency rises, the hearing threshhold gets much lower, meaning that the perceived distortion masks the fundamental easily.
How to do it? : Either Lots of drivers or big horns or exotic devices. Disregarding the kind of implementation, you will probably end with a device that will be to big or too heavy or unsusable because of distortion levels. I would go the horn way, as you can substitute LOTS of drivers with a smart design and wood. I'll add a simulation of a stack of eight tapped horns, that will do 10-40hz with lots of output, but each unit is about 500liters, making the stack 4m³ big. You could use this as a staring point to develop a compromised system.
How to do it? : Either Lots of drivers or big horns or exotic devices. Disregarding the kind of implementation, you will probably end with a device that will be to big or too heavy or unsusable because of distortion levels. I would go the horn way, as you can substitute LOTS of drivers with a smart design and wood. I'll add a simulation of a stack of eight tapped horns, that will do 10-40hz with lots of output, but each unit is about 500liters, making the stack 4m³ big. You could use this as a staring point to develop a compromised system.
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Orangealpaca,
Do a search for "subsonic speakers" and "tapped horn subwoofer".
"Subsonic speakers" are usually long pipes with a resonant frequency below 20 Hz.
Several of the guys building the "collaborative tapped horn" claim response below 20 Hz.
Keep in mind that the enclosure for such a system will need to be very large.
Good luck,
Larry
Do a search for "subsonic speakers" and "tapped horn subwoofer".
"Subsonic speakers" are usually long pipes with a resonant frequency below 20 Hz.
Several of the guys building the "collaborative tapped horn" claim response below 20 Hz.
Keep in mind that the enclosure for such a system will need to be very large.
Good luck,
Larry
Also keep in mind that you are talking about infrasonic (below 20 Hz) woofers not subsonic. Subsonic means slower than the speed of sound.
Hi,
I don't know how large the art gallery is but I tend to think along the lines of Mavo's suggestion. High efficiency and lots of drivers to give that sub output.
You will also need pretty deep bass speakers to get down to around 30Hz to 40Hz to match up with the narrow bandwidth of the sub.
I don't know how large the art gallery is but I tend to think along the lines of Mavo's suggestion. High efficiency and lots of drivers to give that sub output.
You will also need pretty deep bass speakers to get down to around 30Hz to 40Hz to match up with the narrow bandwidth of the sub.
Cal,
I stand corrected ... "infrasonic" is the correct term.
I read an article somewhere once that said that infrasonic sounds can cause nausea, fear, and a sense of "unearthly presence".
Thanks.
Larry
I stand corrected ... "infrasonic" is the correct term.
I read an article somewhere once that said that infrasonic sounds can cause nausea, fear, and a sense of "unearthly presence".
Thanks.
Larry
there was once phoenix gold brand car subwoofer that could go infrasonic, it looks like a washing machine of some sort, and is very expensive. the design was said to be used for experimentation of elephants in the wild.
As of now, If that is really your dream, To go infra sonic, I think your best bet is the Aurasound 18" with NEO magnet . Use 20 pcs. of them in sealed boxes and power each of them with at least 500watts amp that could also go down to 10hz, build your own equalizer to augment 10hz and then put them in a regular sized room , with walls , floors and ceilings made of concrete.
Very easy to do, If you ask me.
As of now, If that is really your dream, To go infra sonic, I think your best bet is the Aurasound 18" with NEO magnet . Use 20 pcs. of them in sealed boxes and power each of them with at least 500watts amp that could also go down to 10hz, build your own equalizer to augment 10hz and then put them in a regular sized room , with walls , floors and ceilings made of concrete.
Very easy to do, If you ask me.
Thanks heaps for a beginning MaVo, Larry, Cal and Andrew.
I will do a search on infra-sonics (and sub-sonics so that I know what I am talking about!) and the horns that you mention.
The effect I am after is a felt wave rather than a heard one, with deep bass overtones of course....
I was kind of hoping that somebody would post a miracle easy solution. Oh well. But life is like that I guess - difficult, but fun!
I will start searching and see what comes up - thanks for some good starting points.
Sean.
I will do a search on infra-sonics (and sub-sonics so that I know what I am talking about!) and the horns that you mention.
The effect I am after is a felt wave rather than a heard one, with deep bass overtones of course....
I was kind of hoping that somebody would post a miracle easy solution. Oh well. But life is like that I guess - difficult, but fun!
I will start searching and see what comes up - thanks for some good starting points.
Sean.
orangealpaca actually posted before marchel did so if these last two seem out of order, it's because they are.
orangealpaca said:
If the feeling of pressure is what your after, then 20hz lower cutoff should be sufficient. To my subjective experience, around 20-30hz you have alot of this pressure feeling. But i have no experience with <20hz, so i cant comment on this. Well, 30hz from a big tapped horn can be scary 🙂
Following is a much smaller design, going from 18 (-3db) and 15hz (-10db) using only 350liters.
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A different kind of compromise would be to accept a certain amount of distortion as a part of the performance. Since your doing art, you are free to do this. Simply using one of the eight subs i posted in my first reply would yield the following response in a 500-600liter package.
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For something smaller, try a search for "Graham Holliman". This design was discussed here awhile ago. Not sure how well this would work in your installation, but might be worth a try.
I think a fan subwoofer was made to do this.
Maybe using annother infinite baffle with 4 15's for 30Hz up.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67028&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Maybe using annother infinite baffle with 4 15's for 30Hz up.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67028&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Hmm, since it's such a narrow BW, a single woofer 4th order BP tuned with a pair 15" PRs should provide all the gut rumbling you need in ~11-13 ft^3 if using a mass loaded car audio low Vas, long stroke, high power rated subwoofer, which can be shaped to lay on the floor to serve double duty as a shelf, or fake podium like we did for a trade show exhibit many moons ago, though it was tuned to 16 Hz.
Indeed, at these infrasonic frequencies one has to make sure the building's construction is up to its performance and that everything of importance is well anchored/damped against vibrational damage.
GM
Indeed, at these infrasonic frequencies one has to make sure the building's construction is up to its performance and that everything of importance is well anchored/damped against vibrational damage.
GM
orangealpaca the dayton reference 15" *2 one pair i saw in bangkok hi-fi festival long time ago. with the high power amp made everyone with surprise. Deep bass(super sub infra sonic) is lower than 20 hz but they used another drivers to build. i forgot that they used close boxs or vent boxs.
i have the link for u(18 hz)
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_2/energyes18xlsubwoofer.html
😎
i have the link for u(18 hz)
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_2/energyes18xlsubwoofer.html
😎
I,ve experience loud 20hz in my car, using bass track, you can feel your hair, shirt and pants flap. It would be great for movies, only if it were as easy to achieve inside the house.
Thanks everyone, and apologies if I seem erratic in my time, but I have just woken up here is Sydney!
MaVo, the modelling you are doing for horns, is it on an easy to get program? If not, do you have any sites or books that would be worth getting design as well as practical basics about designing and building bass horns? The Horn Speaker homepage is pretty badly linked. I am going to go thoroughly through this page about horn basics before I get in too deep - yikes....
http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.html
Mr Skinny, The Holliman design sounds like it is pretty dependent on the room, and gallery spaces tend to vary greatly in terms of being open to other rooms and such. I would like to go with something a little less finicky on the space it is in....
And I agree that the fandrivers are a bit unrealistic - sure I can get what I need with a fairly conventional design, albeit large.
Passive radiators? I will look into it also - but first I would like to look at the horns - the narrow bandwidth, simplicity of design and the efficiency appeals to me.
Thanks - any suggestions on basics of horn design and construction greatly appreciated and I will get onto the pen and paper!
Cheers,
Sean.
MaVo, the modelling you are doing for horns, is it on an easy to get program? If not, do you have any sites or books that would be worth getting design as well as practical basics about designing and building bass horns? The Horn Speaker homepage is pretty badly linked. I am going to go thoroughly through this page about horn basics before I get in too deep - yikes....
http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.html
Mr Skinny, The Holliman design sounds like it is pretty dependent on the room, and gallery spaces tend to vary greatly in terms of being open to other rooms and such. I would like to go with something a little less finicky on the space it is in....
And I agree that the fandrivers are a bit unrealistic - sure I can get what I need with a fairly conventional design, albeit large.
Passive radiators? I will look into it also - but first I would like to look at the horns - the narrow bandwidth, simplicity of design and the efficiency appeals to me.
Thanks - any suggestions on basics of horn design and construction greatly appreciated and I will get onto the pen and paper!
Cheers,
Sean.
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