Okay got it now, not a bad idea and thank you for explaining but not for my knowledge and expertise , I will need help to make that sound as right as possible .
If I’m doing the Satori 9.5” it’s going to be the 4ohm and the cabinet will be at 56lt with bass reflex . An other concern is that the Satori is rated at 90w my amp is 160w so even that I’m not enjoying loud music, I should be carful when I’m getting excited….
argou
You are in a bit of dilemma here.
More controlled bass means usually stiffer suspension and bigger diameter of the driver.
In the other end you want cross over to a 2" dome in a region where the bass midrange are close to breaking up.
Personally I would like to see a driver that are free from break up 2 octaves above cross over point, so
free from break ups to approx 4kHz, and very few drivers can handle that.
Have checked around a bit and see no better alternatives than Satori TeXtreme WO24-8 or 4 or SB Acoustics 23NBAC45-8.
They can play equally good or a littre better than TIW200XS in bass, have better and lower distortion compared and a higher sensitivity.
If I where you I would try SBA 23NBAC45-8 since it can fit directly into your 30 liter cabinet and see if you get any imrovements.
If not satisfied sell it again.
You are in a bit of dilemma here.
More controlled bass means usually stiffer suspension and bigger diameter of the driver.
In the other end you want cross over to a 2" dome in a region where the bass midrange are close to breaking up.
Personally I would like to see a driver that are free from break up 2 octaves above cross over point, so
free from break ups to approx 4kHz, and very few drivers can handle that.
Have checked around a bit and see no better alternatives than Satori TeXtreme WO24-8 or 4 or SB Acoustics 23NBAC45-8.
They can play equally good or a littre better than TIW200XS in bass, have better and lower distortion compared and a higher sensitivity.
If I where you I would try SBA 23NBAC45-8 since it can fit directly into your 30 liter cabinet and see if you get any imrovements.
If not satisfied sell it again.
I modeled your woofers in parallel quick and came up with this coil for the .5 way parallel if you choose the double 8 route
https://www.parts-express.com/Jantz...re-Inductor-Crossover-Coil-255-163?quantity=1
This will start rolling off the bottom woofer at around 125hz at a rate of 6db per octave so by the time you’re at 1k, the bottom woofer response is down 18db from the fundamental so no lobing or otherwise negative effect. The upper
Thank you Flex 2 ! Much appreciated your explanation and concern .
I believe the Satori TeXtreme is closer to what I’m willing to put into this and I strongly considering mayhem’s 13 approach. With 2x 8”in parallel with a coil.
I will need to investigate more for options….as at the moment, life does not allows me to spend much money or time for building speakers , tearing apart and re-building again , that would have been ideal to had a clearer picture what I like the most in my
listening space ,with my system .
Thank you for your time to investigate!!!
I can see it better now what you suggesting .
Can I ask ? Should the woofers be identical ? I meen , I have a pair of Visaton AL200 that is standing around doing nothing …. and it has a dreak up above 2.5khz ??
https://www.visaton.de/en/products/drivers/woofers/al-200-8-ohm
My opinion is 57 liters for the Textreme is way too much. It is after all not a Big driver.
To be honest, 57 liter internal volume with only biggish 8” is bit funny because performance Will not follow size at all. Not anything to do with Textreme 🙂
It is not a bad thing to have enough watt on the tab. Just remember if you use any boost in the crossover or if Music have a alot of bass, you Will only need Maybe 20-25 Watt (rough gestimate) to move drivers to X-max.
No, my samples of the MW19TX-8 matched the chart published by SB (only worse factoring in smoothing). Not due to room, distance, BR tuning whatever.
If SB knew how to measure bass accurately the chart would not be wrong. And if SB didn't know how to measure bass accurately, would they be able to design and manufacture good bass?
(I'm far from the only one to pu-pu SB bass.)
Last edited:
Looking at break-up, firstly I don't think it's something that's set in stone after you've bought the speaker. Rather, it's several different properties all summed together in a way that is unlikely to work well:
- A high sensitivity woofer with a 'crisp', 'lively' cone, likely to show a ragged peaky FR curve in response to a voltage sweep.
- A 'difficult' box, like a nice hardwood monkey coffin.
- Distortion mechanisms like stray inductance from a high-Xmax voice coil + "low tech" motor without shorting rings.
- Active filters + bass-centric amplifier with a high damping factor, & minimal impedance between the speaker and amplifier, so no passive XO filters.
- Combine the active XO with a 1st order passive filter. In largely unexplored territory, I would combine a 1st passive + 2nd order active for a combined 3rd order response. 2nd order passive could also work, but personally the last time I used a 2nd order passive XO it sounded terrible full-stop.
- An air-cored inductor should not have to be huge, low gauge, with super low DCR. You are trying to raise the impedance, so that above 500-1kHz or so, the total coil impedance swamps the stray inductance of the voice coil. So 1-2 ohms DCR could be compensated by making the box slightly bigger and overdamped, as suggested by your box simulator.
- Increase the safety margin by going for a lower sensitivity woofer, which advertises a smoother response in the first place.
Guys , the ones that see the 10” as a good option , how about this one ?
Ported or not , max ~59lt .
Thank you in advance !
https://beyma.com/nmf/beyma-speakers-data-sheet-near-mid-field-subwoofer-10NMFS.pdf
Ported or not , max ~59lt .
Thank you in advance !
https://beyma.com/nmf/beyma-speakers-data-sheet-near-mid-field-subwoofer-10NMFS.pdf
I would not suggest that one. It is designed as a subwoofer, so it would typically be crossed lower than you intend.
There is a large peak in distortion near your cross point.
https://audioxpress.com/article/voi...ofer-from-beyma-s-near-and-mid-field-nmf-line
"I mounted the 10” driver rigidly in free air and set the SPL to 94dB (the criteria for home/studio monitor drivers) at 1m (9.7V), using SoundCheck’s built-in pink noise generator and SLM. I then measured the distortion with the Listen microphone placed 10cm from the driver. This produced the distortion curves shown in Figure 11."
“Go figure” ….
Thank you for your reply !!!
The reason I post this alternative was that at the same article you are referring to ,the author is commenting the below :
“Given the SPL anomaly centered on 8kHz, this driver could easily be crossover to a midrange driver between 200Hz to 700Hz so it could easily be used in a three-way application as well as a subwoofer.”
I saw that as well but was left wondering if that was a typo and he meant 800 Hz (instead of 8 kHz) after looking at the plots. There is also a little "wrinkle" in the impedance around 800 Hz. It's another symptom that a problem could be there.
Another point is that many will use notch filters at breakup points like that to make the speaker more usable near breakup. Since you don't have measurement/modeling capabilities, this is not really feasible. Yes, you could just use a textbook filter to try to deal with this problem, but a lot of assumptions would have to be made and there's always the chance something goes wrong. It seems safer to me to use a driver with inherently good performance for your desired range. It decreases your pool of usable drivers, but increases your chances of success.
Another point is that many will use notch filters at breakup points like that to make the speaker more usable near breakup. Since you don't have measurement/modeling capabilities, this is not really feasible. Yes, you could just use a textbook filter to try to deal with this problem, but a lot of assumptions would have to be made and there's always the chance something goes wrong. It seems safer to me to use a driver with inherently good performance for your desired range. It decreases your pool of usable drivers, but increases your chances of success.