Headphones and speakers both have unique positives. If your listening room is compromised preventing good speaker placement, headphones are an easy way to eliminate that problem. I came from speakers and moving to headphones many of them don't sound as full or bass-heavy. I started out with a Senn HD600 about two decades ago and it wasn't until the Audeze LCD-2 was released that I was really wowed by a headphone that, while expensive, was obtainable. Those are planar magnetic, and as Adason mentioned the HiFiMan offers some low cost points of entry to the planar world. I do think that Audeze house sound is closer to traditional speakers, but both are worth trying.
Also as Adason has pointed out, the WHAMMY is a high-performance, low cost amplifier that can compete with much more expensive amp offerings and you won't get much more getting into the above $1,000 category. Pete Millett also has the NuTube headphone amp if you like the sound of tubes and are looking for a low-cost build. Also mentioned was Schiit, which is a great value. Further, I think the Bottlehead S.E.X. is still relevant many years into its lifespan. The LCD-2 and S.E.X. was a nice combo I enjoyed for years. I preferred it to their more expensive Mainline.
Bottom line, there is much to enjoy in the headphone world even if you are a speaker fan, but auditioning is pretty important as we all have different tastes. Something that sounds amazing to some ears can sound sucked out and dry to others. While more obvious to us DIY guys, just because a headphone or amp is $4,000 doesn't make it good.
Also as Adason has pointed out, the WHAMMY is a high-performance, low cost amplifier that can compete with much more expensive amp offerings and you won't get much more getting into the above $1,000 category. Pete Millett also has the NuTube headphone amp if you like the sound of tubes and are looking for a low-cost build. Also mentioned was Schiit, which is a great value. Further, I think the Bottlehead S.E.X. is still relevant many years into its lifespan. The LCD-2 and S.E.X. was a nice combo I enjoyed for years. I preferred it to their more expensive Mainline.
Bottom line, there is much to enjoy in the headphone world even if you are a speaker fan, but auditioning is pretty important as we all have different tastes. Something that sounds amazing to some ears can sound sucked out and dry to others. While more obvious to us DIY guys, just because a headphone or amp is $4,000 doesn't make it good.
Lots of voltage for the 250 ohm ones, but the low current lets me use SOT-23 devices. Or do you mean that they also have more air pushing overhead?
Mental reminder: get a Nutube to play around with, or at least a tube that's capable of low voltage operation. A big bummer with tubes is that they often require 100+V, making PSU design a enough of a headache to put it off for "later".
I have about 300 tubes from very cheap to very expensive ones.I won't buy Nutube...I don't need it.I found a very cheap recipee for PSU...I only need 12.6 vdc for fillaments from which I get the anode voltage with a 4 transistor resonant converter that has sine output and more than 90% efficiency...
Headphones that only project a soundstage stuck inside the head don't interest me either. Some headphones with a good source and amp will deliver a soundstage out of your head. Senn HD800 are the spatial king.
The soundstage with headphones still has a challenge competing with speakers for an in front soundstage experience for obvious reasons. There are compensations. Headphones can easily deliver higher fidelity then speakers with no room modes or reflections and low distortion for a fraction of the costs of a room-speaker system.
To get over the soundstage barrier you can
1. buy Sen HD800. They will take the sound way outside of your head in a remarkably spacious way. They need equalising but then most headphones do. They also need a great amp and go well with tubes. If you are into DIY an OTL tube amp would be a fun and affordable project. HD800 second hand can be relatively affordable with a worn cable that's coming apart. DIY a new cable is easy. HD800 are one of the best value high end audiophile bargains for a DIY'er who knows how to tune them up. In contrast for many user's without DIY ability the HD800 are disappointing.
2. Stop listening to speakers so your brain stops comparing them to headphones and hearing what they are do not do. After a few days your brain can start to appreciate what headphones deliver. What they can give is remarkable.
Somewhere in 1997-2000 I bought a Yamaha RH-5M. Liked it very much. The sound is not tied to the head, detailed, timbre correct. I listened to the Yamaha RH-5Ma now being produced, it seemed worse. But for $100, I think it's worth taking into account.
Thanks for the thoughts, everyone! Hmm, so perhaps I shouldn't give up too easily then, if models like the HD800 and RH-5M can offer some more realistic placement/soundstage.
It is frustratingly hard to audition such things where i am, let alone planars, and many of the better ones are out of my pricerange anyway. But they could potentially be what i'm looking for, so I shall start to lurk on auction sites.
Though kazap's other thought is also something i was wondering about; basically buy into headphones and get used to them for what they are. I'll switch off my speakers for a while and see if i can become more happy with the current sennheisers before spending lots of money.
Cheers,
Kev
It is frustratingly hard to audition such things where i am, let alone planars, and many of the better ones are out of my pricerange anyway. But they could potentially be what i'm looking for, so I shall start to lurk on auction sites.
Though kazap's other thought is also something i was wondering about; basically buy into headphones and get used to them for what they are. I'll switch off my speakers for a while and see if i can become more happy with the current sennheisers before spending lots of money.
Cheers,
Kev
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If you buy used headphones you can audition at home and then move them on. You need to research models to find what you will like. For sound stage you want an open back headphone. Senn HD800 will hold their price as they are the bargain of great headphones. Focal Elear image well and have a super dynamic sound fun sound. AKG K701 are affordable and image well.
With your current headphones try DSP's to improve the sound and imaging. Foobar will allow EQ, expanding the image width and spreading the image location.
Some very nice (i.e. ex$pensive) headphones would certainly be a nice treat. Having heard some planars, I'd like to get some of those myself!
But, you can get a LOT of satisfaction out of your HD598 cans. I know because I've had a pair for several years and love them. They're easy to drive and very comfortable (but I know comfort is a very personal thing) even though I wear glasses.
A good headphone amp and good quality sources made a huge difference for me.
But, you can get a LOT of satisfaction out of your HD598 cans. I know because I've had a pair for several years and love them. They're easy to drive and very comfortable (but I know comfort is a very personal thing) even though I wear glasses.
A good headphone amp and good quality sources made a huge difference for me.
Thanks both, and thanks in particular for the suggestions, kazap. So then, the first step is definately going to be sorting out a decent amp and some EQ ability; it seems I can't fairly judge the current phones without those, let alone do meaningful auditioning of any others. Besides, even if i don't achieve the soundstage wished, I will still need to use headphones sometimes (for higher SPL listening), so can't really lose out by making an improvement.
If it does come to getting new phones as well, the HD800s are very appealing but (for me) eye-wateringly expensive (even second-hand they're equivalent to about 3months of rent). At one time i'd have said the focal Elears were too, but pre-used ones look to be 'only' around half the price of the HD800s here. By comparison the K701s are almost cheap, so they may well be the first step after amps and EQ.
I must remember that I'm not a highly trained or golden-eared listener, so would probably be completely happy with a good midrange setup; I just don't like anything that locates the band/orchestra artificially inside my own skull. There seem to be differing opinions on how far one can expect to go with that though, so i guess this will be the start of a small journey of discovery for me.
Thanks again for all the helpful thoughts and advice,
Kev
If it does come to getting new phones as well, the HD800s are very appealing but (for me) eye-wateringly expensive (even second-hand they're equivalent to about 3months of rent). At one time i'd have said the focal Elears were too, but pre-used ones look to be 'only' around half the price of the HD800s here. By comparison the K701s are almost cheap, so they may well be the first step after amps and EQ.
I must remember that I'm not a highly trained or golden-eared listener, so would probably be completely happy with a good midrange setup; I just don't like anything that locates the band/orchestra artificially inside my own skull. There seem to be differing opinions on how far one can expect to go with that though, so i guess this will be the start of a small journey of discovery for me.
Thanks again for all the helpful thoughts and advice,
Kev
Perhaps consider:
1. DSP - free and easy. Foobar has many options. DSP channel mixer has a stereo width. You can also try dolby DSP to see if the out of the head spiel works for you
2. Research eg https://soundgearlab.com/roundup/best-soundstage-headphones/
3. Headphones
4. Amp - amps need to match the headphone
Ah thanks very much; that is a good link. I had been doing my own online searches and the senn 800s are indeed regularly at the top of people's soundstage list, as are the much more modest AKG 701/702s; I think both might suit me (if not my finite wealth). However the SHP9500 is a new budget option and the Ananda looks to be especially interesting if it combines both good soundstage and planar design (as was recommended earlier). So thats good, some more strong options to consider.
To some extent it'll be chicken-and egg since apparently I can't properly evaluate headphones at home (including my current ones) without a better amp, yet the most suitable amp might depend on the headphones. I suppose if I go the DIY route then the amp will be open to more customisation, and/or I could choose amps that are more tolerant of different loads. Or.. perhaps simplest and safest, I could just buy a used one whilst testing and afterwards sell it on again for not much less.
Yes, EQ/DSP is easy to try out so will certainly be one of the first things. I'm not a MS windows user these days so (very sadly) foobar isn't something i use any more, superb as it is. But I've various other applications that would also be fine for testing at least. After that, well maybe some more dedicated software/laptop/raspberry-pi or other 'thing' that would work unobtrusively with a variety of different sources.
Much to think about!
Cheers,
Kev
To some extent it'll be chicken-and egg since apparently I can't properly evaluate headphones at home (including my current ones) without a better amp, yet the most suitable amp might depend on the headphones. I suppose if I go the DIY route then the amp will be open to more customisation, and/or I could choose amps that are more tolerant of different loads. Or.. perhaps simplest and safest, I could just buy a used one whilst testing and afterwards sell it on again for not much less.
Yes, EQ/DSP is easy to try out so will certainly be one of the first things. I'm not a MS windows user these days so (very sadly) foobar isn't something i use any more, superb as it is. But I've various other applications that would also be fine for testing at least. After that, well maybe some more dedicated software/laptop/raspberry-pi or other 'thing' that would work unobtrusively with a variety of different sources.
Much to think about!
Cheers,
Kev
Audio Technica ATH-R70x is one I like. I like the Sennheiser HD600, but think the AT edges it out. I think the Senn HD650 is a bit too warm, but the top end is nice. I like the Focal Elears, but they have so many of them now I'm not sure how they differ, and they're some money.
I have a Whammy amp that I quite like. I have listened to the cheaper Schiit (magni? from several years ago) and the O2 and didn't really love those.
Headphones will show you way more detail. DAC differences that I think I wouldn't appreciate on speakers show up more clearly. That market changes quickly enough I can't evaluate and keep track of what is best...
I think EQ can help a lot. There is a lot of variance in what comes out for headphone frequency response. HRTF's for headphones are complex, but "flat" for speakers is simple. Some of these features can be fairly high Q also, so I'd rather have DSP biquads than 31 band EQ. Your own ear anatomy shapes what arrives at your eardrum at high frequency. I think a lot of spaciousness and reality can be won or lost 3k - 10k Hz. Sweep a sine wave around and EQ until it sounds consistent as you move it around. You can get the sharp features that way, but the broader tonality can be a little harder to do that way. Listening to a sine for long can be exhausting.
Good luck!
I have a Whammy amp that I quite like. I have listened to the cheaper Schiit (magni? from several years ago) and the O2 and didn't really love those.
Headphones will show you way more detail. DAC differences that I think I wouldn't appreciate on speakers show up more clearly. That market changes quickly enough I can't evaluate and keep track of what is best...
I think EQ can help a lot. There is a lot of variance in what comes out for headphone frequency response. HRTF's for headphones are complex, but "flat" for speakers is simple. Some of these features can be fairly high Q also, so I'd rather have DSP biquads than 31 band EQ. Your own ear anatomy shapes what arrives at your eardrum at high frequency. I think a lot of spaciousness and reality can be won or lost 3k - 10k Hz. Sweep a sine wave around and EQ until it sounds consistent as you move it around. You can get the sharp features that way, but the broader tonality can be a little harder to do that way. Listening to a sine for long can be exhausting.
Good luck!
If you ever travel to a city with a good headphone store you can try dozens of headphones in an afternoon and really find out what you like. You can get to hear the high end retailing for over 5k and get an idea what your budget offers and what compromises don't matter to you.
If you cant travel the internet can be a good guide but only if you put in the hours. Most comments are very skewed. But by reading scores of reviews and comments you can build up a reliable pattern.
Buy used and your budget will go further. Make sure you get a reliable model. Be careful with some planar models.
DSP's are vital. Good luck matching Windows free DSP/VST with other OS.
Some headphones dont need an amp to shine. Lower impedance and high sensitivity headphones can sound excellent straight out of some laptops. Better then some other headphones out of a dedicated head-amp.
Some headamps are more adaptable to a variety of headphones. Solid state with low output impedance, variable gain and lower noise without massive global feedback are something to look for if you want to swap headphones. DIY would be fun.
Thanks both. Yes, I think this should be quite fun once it gets going, especially if I make my own amp at any point. Info that i found from some reading around seems to agree with your assessment too, kazap, about amp characteristics that'll work with a wider range of phones. That looks like the way forward for me, at least whilst trying different things out. If I ever settle on one pair of phones then I could always build/buy something more specifically matched, later.
The headphone world feels a bit overwhelming at first due to all the choice, but for initial testing purposes I'll concentrate on phones that are widely agreed to have a good soundstage, as that is the only real doubt that i have. Happily, there are quite a few options, even at modest prices and available second-hand, which will answer that.
There are various methods of DSP and EQ on linux, so I'm sure there'll be no problem in the long run, even though the learning curve for a good dedicated solution might be reasonably steep. For testing though, I'll just use a player that has something adequate built in; maybe revisit Jriver which I have a license for somewhere, or fire up an old windows laptop for foobar as suggested.
Basically, I think the message is to just learn and test stuff out with relatively little investment until I start to settle on some final decisions.
Cheers,
Kev
The headphone world feels a bit overwhelming at first due to all the choice, but for initial testing purposes I'll concentrate on phones that are widely agreed to have a good soundstage, as that is the only real doubt that i have. Happily, there are quite a few options, even at modest prices and available second-hand, which will answer that.
There are various methods of DSP and EQ on linux, so I'm sure there'll be no problem in the long run, even though the learning curve for a good dedicated solution might be reasonably steep. For testing though, I'll just use a player that has something adequate built in; maybe revisit Jriver which I have a license for somewhere, or fire up an old windows laptop for foobar as suggested.
Basically, I think the message is to just learn and test stuff out with relatively little investment until I start to settle on some final decisions.
Cheers,
Kev
You might want to take a look at the following thread, and at the review linked in the first post: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/pass-hpa-1-what-do-we-know.300060/
Its still the standard HPA used by Stereophile to judge headphones.
Regarding headphones themselves, agree with others that planars are highly recommended.
Its still the standard HPA used by Stereophile to judge headphones.
Regarding headphones themselves, agree with others that planars are highly recommended.
Thanks, yes i've seen the thread on the pass hpa-1 amp and it certainly does look exceptional. If I really got into headphones it would be something that i'd seriously consider. Though there is some learning, listening and deciding to do before getting heavily involved, so perhaps from where I stand at the moment the hpa-1 would be on an upgrade path rather than the starting point.
The planars too 'might' be for the future. They are suggested above several times as giving a better sound quality, but the spatial soundstage (that is my main concern) doesn't seem to be particularly remarked upon. So my feeling is to try some 'phones that are actually said to offer a great soundstage to see if even that is acceptable, before spending lots more on high quality planars. However a few seem to be at least reasonable for spatial imaging and not massively expensive so maybe I might still be tempted.
Thanks again,
Kev
The planars too 'might' be for the future. They are suggested above several times as giving a better sound quality, but the spatial soundstage (that is my main concern) doesn't seem to be particularly remarked upon. So my feeling is to try some 'phones that are actually said to offer a great soundstage to see if even that is acceptable, before spending lots more on high quality planars. However a few seem to be at least reasonable for spatial imaging and not massively expensive so maybe I might still be tempted.
Thanks again,
Kev
Before you buy something just install Poweramp Equalizer on your phone and an equalizer plugin in your crome browser on your PC. When you get the equalizers adjusted well I highly doubt you will need a headphone Amp or new headphones. Just enjoy the Music. Save two settings. One for low level listening and one for loud
..... and a DSP with image width might help, or 3D surround.
If you want to run Foobar try DSP > Channel Mixer > Genreral > Stereoimage width +/1 Dolby +/- Bauer
If you want to run Foobar try DSP > Channel Mixer > Genreral > Stereoimage width +/1 Dolby +/- Bauer
@ kev kaz. I also read positively about fubar. Never got around to use it much since Im kinda used to other less smart ways of using Media. I believe fubar2000 looks very complicated and oldfassioned till one puts a nice skin on it right? I think kaz mentions fubar because IT has a Lot of free plugins to improve Sound from headphones. Probably also plugins that lets you hear more nice details from your speakers at low volume when you need a break from headphones
Cheers!
Cheers!
I've fiddled with some basic EQ to achieve a desired frequency response, but haven't really got into more advanced DSP for headphones yet, so that is a good suggestion, thanks. I'm not too comfortable with the idea of introducing effects to the music, but then it is hardly natural for the band to originate between my own ears either; correcting that would be a big step forward even if it requires a bit more (subtle) software trickery.
Yes i like foobar, and wonder if I shall return to it. IMO it does require quite a lot of customisation and learning in order to get it configured how one might want it, and a lot of the more specialist functionality involves third-part plugins which vary in quality and whether they're maintained well (or at all), so it doesn't suit everyone all the time. But it offers a lot of options and advanced possibilities in one package, so can be a 'relatively' convenient way to do things - which might otherwise require coding or even more complicated bits of software.
Over the last several years I've gradually managed to remove Windows from my audio applications, and don't especially want to go back to it. But foobar and a small number of other programmes are useful enough that I might reluctantly end up with windows again, at some point. Though so far there has been very little that can't be done as well or better in Linux, it just sometimes requires more expertise than I actually have.
Yes i like foobar, and wonder if I shall return to it. IMO it does require quite a lot of customisation and learning in order to get it configured how one might want it, and a lot of the more specialist functionality involves third-part plugins which vary in quality and whether they're maintained well (or at all), so it doesn't suit everyone all the time. But it offers a lot of options and advanced possibilities in one package, so can be a 'relatively' convenient way to do things - which might otherwise require coding or even more complicated bits of software.
Over the last several years I've gradually managed to remove Windows from my audio applications, and don't especially want to go back to it. But foobar and a small number of other programmes are useful enough that I might reluctantly end up with windows again, at some point. Though so far there has been very little that can't be done as well or better in Linux, it just sometimes requires more expertise than I actually have.