I want to build horn bass speaker for my system. I have Dallas II with Fostex FE206EN and Monocor compresion super tweeters,playing trough KT88 SE amp.
Everything works nice,but im lacking deep and powerfull,clean bass. So i want to build bass horn.
I buy Eminence Kappa_Pro_18LF_8 and now i want to build a cabinet.
I have problem with space but i want to have nice horn bass sound,not vented box sound.
And i dont have much space. Worst thing is that i dont have enough deepnes for all design what i can find online.
So,i start to make design,change it 1000 times,and in the end,re-scale Klipschorn inside mesurments and put everything together and now i have some design which look ok.Looks,i dont know how this will sound and how low can i go whit this,is it ok for frequencis below 150 hz,etc.
I dont know how to calculate this design to see where is good and where is bad,do i need to change something...So here i humble asking for good souls who know how to put all parameters into calculator and calculate it for me so we can see where to go whit design.
I have to amps for this project,so i will see wich works better,one is digital 150W 8 Ohm,other is solid state 500W 8 Ohm,i take signal from speaker wire and cut it with active crossover at 150 Hz.
Here are pictures of design.
Everything works nice,but im lacking deep and powerfull,clean bass. So i want to build bass horn.
I buy Eminence Kappa_Pro_18LF_8 and now i want to build a cabinet.
I have problem with space but i want to have nice horn bass sound,not vented box sound.
And i dont have much space. Worst thing is that i dont have enough deepnes for all design what i can find online.
So,i start to make design,change it 1000 times,and in the end,re-scale Klipschorn inside mesurments and put everything together and now i have some design which look ok.Looks,i dont know how this will sound and how low can i go whit this,is it ok for frequencis below 150 hz,etc.
I dont know how to calculate this design to see where is good and where is bad,do i need to change something...So here i humble asking for good souls who know how to put all parameters into calculator and calculate it for me so we can see where to go whit design.
I have to amps for this project,so i will see wich works better,one is digital 150W 8 Ohm,other is solid state 500W 8 Ohm,i take signal from speaker wire and cut it with active crossover at 150 Hz.
Here are pictures of design.
Mesurments:
1. horns throat 90 mm x 400 mm = 36000 mm2 = 360 cm2
1. horns length 435 mm = 43,5 cm
1. horns mouth and 2. horns troat 662,89 mm x 90 mm = 59750,1 mm2 = 597,5 cm2
2. horns length 400 mm = 40 cm
2. horns mouth 419,11 mm x 700 mm = 293377 mm2 = 2933,77 cm2
3. horn troat 1067,2 mm x 700 mm = 747040 mm2 = 7470,4 cm2
3. horn length 90mm = 9 cm
3. horn mouth 1214 mm x 700 mm = 849800 mm2 = 8498 cm2
1. horns throat 90 mm x 400 mm = 36000 mm2 = 360 cm2
1. horns length 435 mm = 43,5 cm
1. horns mouth and 2. horns troat 662,89 mm x 90 mm = 59750,1 mm2 = 597,5 cm2
2. horns length 400 mm = 40 cm
2. horns mouth 419,11 mm x 700 mm = 293377 mm2 = 2933,77 cm2
3. horn troat 1067,2 mm x 700 mm = 747040 mm2 = 7470,4 cm2
3. horn length 90mm = 9 cm
3. horn mouth 1214 mm x 700 mm = 849800 mm2 = 8498 cm2
First you need to model the horn. Scaling is fraught with issues. How low it goes is directly related to the mouth size. That means a big horn because it needs to be a certain length. With limited space you would need to use corners to your advantage, and with limited floorspce snake it up the corner and maybe the ceiling.
When faced with this size issue, Tom Danley came up with the Tapped Horn. A double tapped horn with limited bandwidth, but high output from a smallish size.
Typical W-Bins as used in PAs, are good to maybe 40Hz, designed to kick between 80-120 Hz.
dave
When faced with this size issue, Tom Danley came up with the Tapped Horn. A double tapped horn with limited bandwidth, but high output from a smallish size.
Typical W-Bins as used in PAs, are good to maybe 40Hz, designed to kick between 80-120 Hz.
dave
Your moth size suggests that your horn is good to approx 90 Hz in free space, 45 Hz on the floor, half that firing if it takes advantage of the floor/wall junction, half again if in the corner. In Theory.
dave
dave
hm,this sounds great,becuose it will be placed od the floor,and 5 cm from the wall from back side. So thats,by theory 22,5 Hz,wou,i like what you saying 🙂
Assuming expo horn in 4pi space
1. ~651 Hz
1.~197.7 Hz 1/4 WL cutoff, ~395.4 Hz 1/2 WL horn loading
1. ???
2. ~215 Hz 1/4 WL cutoff, ~430 Hz 1/2 WL horn loading
2. ~179.18 Hz
3. ~112.27 Hz
3. ~955.56 Hz 1/4 WL cutoff, ~477.48 Hz 1/2 WL horn loading
3. ~105.27 Hz
Hm,ok,then i will try to find som TH plans for space what i have.
One question,if w bins dont go so low,how can la scala bass bin play so good? Its 15" driver and more then double smaller then my design?
A horn mouth alone without the rest of the horn with an end correction just tells us it will support at least ~105.27 Hz. Its large throat and only 9 cm deep is obviously little more than a WG suitable for a ~500 Hz XO and if compression loaded with a sealed back, best tuned to ~232 Hz.
La scala's don't go very low.. tuning is up around 60hz-70hz. If that is the kind of sound you are going for the W bin will definitely do it, but if you want modern day low frequency performance it's not going to happen with a FLH any smaller than a cube van.
I dont need modern low sub frequency response,but what i want is nice clean massiv bass so you can hear nice every pick and clock and every detail from double bass,or slap and pop from bass guitar.
You think this design can do that?
I get advice from one Serbian speaker builder to go for bass reflex enclosure but with QB3 alingment. Im not sure that i understand what that is and if this is a good idea. I like very much sound of horns and had never heard vented box with nice clean bass. Its allways mudy and like lacking something. Like bass come frustrated out from this small port,and for comparation,from horn bass come totali relaxed full of detail. Maybe is this just my peronal taste,dont know.
What do you think about vented QB3 box vs W bin horn box?
And if someone please can explain little bit what is QB3 or put some link where i can read more about that.
Thanks!
What do you think about vented QB3 box vs W bin horn box?
And if someone please can explain little bit what is QB3 or put some link where i can read more about that.
Thanks!
The La Scala was designed at a time when recordings were pretty much limited to ~40 Hz/-24 dB, so if your source material is vinyl, old tapes, AM/FM radio, then yes.
Based on your stated performance requirements though, you pretty much do since string bass goes down to ~40 Hz with ~30 Hz sub harmonics, which while more felt than heard, it adds the necessary 'weight' and due to how we hear it increases our HF perception since the lower the fundamental, the wider its total harmonic BW, so the short answer from a technical, acoustic POV and IME is an emphatic NO.
BR alignments explained with QB3 the most used default calculator alignment and often referred to as a T/S max flat alignment.
Yes, compared to sealed it often leaves something to be desired due to not using the appropriate alignment for the needs of the app, though critically damping the vent or worst case, stuffing it like a sealed alignment normally solves the problem/~bridges the gap between BR/sealed overall performance.
True, one ideally needs a large enough BR vent to ensure a low mach and even then can't match the horn's terminus/mouth acoustic radiation impedance (pistonic) gain.
In short, there's 'no replacement for displacement' 😉 plus we're always trading efficiency for BW, ergo the BR will likely be smaller + easier to build with less peak LF output and a much wider BW than a comparably tuned W-bin, so your call.
You're welcome!
Historically I built some form of (vented) TL (AKA (ML)TL, (ML)horn, (ML)TQWT, (ML) Voigt), though if I were building today I'd do a tapped TL or horn (TTL/TH) and depending on its performance may need to critically damp it since I too am VERY horn centric with its 'heart attack' fast transients due to being weaned/spoiled rotten from a very early age 'experiencing' a huge SOTA cinema palace multi-way system complete with a large pipe organ for intermission entertainment.
edit: Without 'running the numbers', not sure if your driver meets your needs, especially space limitations, which are?