awaken flat earthers!
I want to let others who come here know that the flat earthers here are not the majority of audiophiles looking for the best sound. So, I have decided to post links to sites that contain what the flat earthers refer to as Voodoo (some but not all personally tested by the head Shaman....me). I personally will not comment on the Voodoo nor any reaction to the post. Have fun!
http://www.marigoaudio.com
I believe Ron at Marigo has some kind of degree (physics I believe).
Notice the expensive cables, the CD doodad and especially the vibration tuning dots....he he....your gunna love this!
I want to let others who come here know that the flat earthers here are not the majority of audiophiles looking for the best sound. So, I have decided to post links to sites that contain what the flat earthers refer to as Voodoo (some but not all personally tested by the head Shaman....me). I personally will not comment on the Voodoo nor any reaction to the post. Have fun!
http://www.marigoaudio.com
I believe Ron at Marigo has some kind of degree (physics I believe).
Notice the expensive cables, the CD doodad and especially the vibration tuning dots....he he....your gunna love this!
Heres another
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/belles_150a_hotrod.htm
A review by Doug Blackburn (no doubt a Voodoo man) where he mentions how the amp can be improved by damping the heatsinks....1999.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/belles_150a_hotrod.htm
A review by Doug Blackburn (no doubt a Voodoo man) where he mentions how the amp can be improved by damping the heatsinks....1999.
Re: awaken flat earthers!
You got that right, sweetheart. If you think because who you think qualifies as being smarter than you for whatever reason, say's you need a three thousand dollar speaker cable, it'll make all the difference in your system, then my friend, you _are_ a "tweaker" and I _am_ a flat earther.
I'd say the majority of flat earthers here, as you put it, are a tad more intelligent and free thinking than to allow themselves to be programmed so easily. That allows us to dig deep and address issues which actually do matter. Rather novel, wouldn't you say.
Good luck to you and your tweaks.
Ric Schultz said:
You got that right, sweetheart. If you think because who you think qualifies as being smarter than you for whatever reason, say's you need a three thousand dollar speaker cable, it'll make all the difference in your system, then my friend, you _are_ a "tweaker" and I _am_ a flat earther.
I'd say the majority of flat earthers here, as you put it, are a tad more intelligent and free thinking than to allow themselves to be programmed so easily. That allows us to dig deep and address issues which actually do matter. Rather novel, wouldn't you say.
Good luck to you and your tweaks.
Now wasn't that fun?!?
This message is directed at everyone appropriate....you know who you are. This will be the very last thing I have to say on the subject...so listen closely.
What I want is some respect....R E S P E C T....sock it to me, sock it to me.....socket to me...baby
Others want respect too!!!
When someone posts something you don't agree with here, why do you feel you need to ridicule and mock them? Why do you always have to immediately tell everyone that this is not "true"? Why do you try to make them look stupid or crazy? Do you feel insecure in your beliefs? Are you trying to save us from our delusions? Is this some kind of messianic trip? Why do you feel you always need the last word? Don't you think that we know what you think? I know what you think and I don't care that you think that way. Why do you care so much that I have a different experience than yours? Why can't I come here and tell people what I find sonically valuable without the non-believers all having to say how nuts this is, how stupid this is, how unscientific it is, how crazy I am, how much utter nonsense it is, that I should take my meds, etc.
This is not good human conduct...plain and simple. There are some who will not participate on the UCD and like threads for fear of confrontation. I have received one email from someone to that affect. Your super critical judgemental I am right get out of here attitude is driving them away. Then there will be no new news....no real discoveries if all that remains are a core of people who all think alike. You do not own this forum. You are not the boss here. This is a democracy and we should be able to state our opinion without constantly being criticized. This is really the only reason I came back and said anything.....I want some respect. I want my opinion treated with dignity.
I will ask you kindly. We all know what you non believers, or half believers, think. So, when someone states that they do/did/think about something that you disagree with, why don't you just let it be......can you do this? Can you let a different opinion than yours just have its own course. Can you let others in this club and let them talk amongst themselves even though you think they are all nuts? I am asking you to do this....all of you. Let us have our say without laughter, jibes, put downs and constant chatter with the same message. We all know what that message is, you don't need to keep repeating it.....do you?
So, show a little kindness. Move into your heart. Let the "nonsense and Voodoo" have its own space. This is not the nerds and scientific forum.....this is DIYaudio....for EVERYONE....for the fanatics....did you read that....the fanatics....including those fanatics that listen to ringing heatsinks....well, not anymore....I damped them....he he.
I respect your opinion, please respect mine.
I respect your experience and knowledge, please do the same for me.
I respect you, please respect me.
I honor your being, please honor mine.
I want to share my experience without conflict, I hope you want the same.
I want to be loving and helpful, not selfish and arrogant. I hope you want the same.
"All we are saying.....is give Peace a chance" shhhhhh. quiet now. can you feel the love?
The best reply to this post would be none......this post needs no reply.....think about it....don't just snap back.....feel it. I love you.
This message is directed at everyone appropriate....you know who you are. This will be the very last thing I have to say on the subject...so listen closely.
What I want is some respect....R E S P E C T....sock it to me, sock it to me.....socket to me...baby
Others want respect too!!!
When someone posts something you don't agree with here, why do you feel you need to ridicule and mock them? Why do you always have to immediately tell everyone that this is not "true"? Why do you try to make them look stupid or crazy? Do you feel insecure in your beliefs? Are you trying to save us from our delusions? Is this some kind of messianic trip? Why do you feel you always need the last word? Don't you think that we know what you think? I know what you think and I don't care that you think that way. Why do you care so much that I have a different experience than yours? Why can't I come here and tell people what I find sonically valuable without the non-believers all having to say how nuts this is, how stupid this is, how unscientific it is, how crazy I am, how much utter nonsense it is, that I should take my meds, etc.
This is not good human conduct...plain and simple. There are some who will not participate on the UCD and like threads for fear of confrontation. I have received one email from someone to that affect. Your super critical judgemental I am right get out of here attitude is driving them away. Then there will be no new news....no real discoveries if all that remains are a core of people who all think alike. You do not own this forum. You are not the boss here. This is a democracy and we should be able to state our opinion without constantly being criticized. This is really the only reason I came back and said anything.....I want some respect. I want my opinion treated with dignity.
I will ask you kindly. We all know what you non believers, or half believers, think. So, when someone states that they do/did/think about something that you disagree with, why don't you just let it be......can you do this? Can you let a different opinion than yours just have its own course. Can you let others in this club and let them talk amongst themselves even though you think they are all nuts? I am asking you to do this....all of you. Let us have our say without laughter, jibes, put downs and constant chatter with the same message. We all know what that message is, you don't need to keep repeating it.....do you?
So, show a little kindness. Move into your heart. Let the "nonsense and Voodoo" have its own space. This is not the nerds and scientific forum.....this is DIYaudio....for EVERYONE....for the fanatics....did you read that....the fanatics....including those fanatics that listen to ringing heatsinks....well, not anymore....I damped them....he he.
I respect your opinion, please respect mine.
I respect your experience and knowledge, please do the same for me.
I respect you, please respect me.
I honor your being, please honor mine.
I want to share my experience without conflict, I hope you want the same.
I want to be loving and helpful, not selfish and arrogant. I hope you want the same.
"All we are saying.....is give Peace a chance" shhhhhh. quiet now. can you feel the love?
The best reply to this post would be none......this post needs no reply.....think about it....don't just snap back.....feel it. I love you.
Re: Re: awaken flat earthers!
If you replace "more intelligent and free thinking" with "at least think they know it all and want others to think so to and delete or put NOT in front of the "free thinking" comment, then I agree.
Why the &%$# some people care so much what other people spend, or think for that matter, is beyond me. No need to get rude about it. It need not be taken as a personal attack.
I know those who claim to be "more intelligent" who say speaker wires don't matter on such and such a type of amp according to there (good) ears when they use an alligator clip to evaluate them, and who put caps made for low level dolby filters as output filters on 100+ watt Class D amplifiers. The same type will spend bucks on wire that by there own mental capability shouldn't make a difference for wiring there amp. Harnis wire, they spend money, speaker wire, what a waste. Seems so consistant?
No, its just the personal value one person puts on it over another. Why would such a person want to judge another? Usually, its just judgement of what they hate in themselves.
Many a person is happy and enjoy music listening on crap. They by this metric must be the very smartest of all and don't bother ready such a waste of time.
I can appreciate guys like EVA, who at the very least is consistant, and never claims to hear anything and just gives good solid engineering advice.
Oh, its so easy to be rude. Doesn't this make it fun! NOT
Lets knock it off Chris.
Mike
classd4sure said:
If you replace "more intelligent and free thinking" with "at least think they know it all and want others to think so to and delete or put NOT in front of the "free thinking" comment, then I agree.
Why the &%$# some people care so much what other people spend, or think for that matter, is beyond me. No need to get rude about it. It need not be taken as a personal attack.
I know those who claim to be "more intelligent" who say speaker wires don't matter on such and such a type of amp according to there (good) ears when they use an alligator clip to evaluate them, and who put caps made for low level dolby filters as output filters on 100+ watt Class D amplifiers. The same type will spend bucks on wire that by there own mental capability shouldn't make a difference for wiring there amp. Harnis wire, they spend money, speaker wire, what a waste. Seems so consistant?
No, its just the personal value one person puts on it over another. Why would such a person want to judge another? Usually, its just judgement of what they hate in themselves.
Many a person is happy and enjoy music listening on crap. They by this metric must be the very smartest of all and don't bother ready such a waste of time.
I can appreciate guys like EVA, who at the very least is consistant, and never claims to hear anything and just gives good solid engineering advice.
Oh, its so easy to be rude. Doesn't this make it fun! NOT
Lets knock it off Chris.
Mike
Heat sink for UCD700?
Hey, ignorance is bliss (in most cases).
More importantly, where have the mods been? pburke got his answer and then this thread took a turn for the worse. It was fun to read and all but shouldn't have gone on this long.
Portlandmike said:
Hey, ignorance is bliss (in most cases).
More importantly, where have the mods been? pburke got his answer and then this thread took a turn for the worse. It was fun to read and all but shouldn't have gone on this long.
Re: Re: Re: awaken flat earthers!
I believe I already apologized to a certain extent for simply laughing, having explained I was simply too tired to muster up anything else. It was misfortunate but it is the truth.
Obviously I question your theory which you would seem to readily portray as fact. Why should that be so disturbing to you, especially if you swear by it? I'd think you'd have no problem proving your findings without resorting to the supposed failings of nerdy engineers Vs listeners Vs DIYaudio's unfriendliness Vs the sound of wire Vs ten reviewers Vs +30 years tweaking.... Seriously it was just pathetic, in my view, certainly less than scientific to say the least, nothing that could ever sway me.
Isn't it easy to defend your position by pointing to the failings of everything else? How weak a position to have to defend your findings by every other means possible aside from anything concrete? Hooow conveeeeniant too. These are the walls of voodoo where ignorance takes root, and I believe to be a hindrance to true advancement, beneficial only to bloodsuckers.
Do people not deserve the best and most correct information possible? Do you not?
You're welcome to your say as equally as I am to mine. I've no trouble at all defending my position, maybe you ought to revisit yours instead of defending it so weakly.
Feel free to reply to this should you so choose, I'm not too worried about it either way, and certainly don't feel the need to make hit and run posts in response to someone who'd disagree with me.
Additionally what I enjoy about DIYaudio is the level of quality information freely available here, so that fewer people are forced to rely on those who'd profit off of selling them voodoo. If I contribute to help keeping it that way, thanks for the compliment.
No hard feelings either way, but I don't think I love you.
Mike, "it need not be taken as a personal attack".... followed by a rather extensive one, and for no other purpose than to attack at that.
Hardly worth the bother, Michael..thanks for the laugh.
Best Regards,
Chris
Ric Schultz said:
I believe I already apologized to a certain extent for simply laughing, having explained I was simply too tired to muster up anything else. It was misfortunate but it is the truth.
Obviously I question your theory which you would seem to readily portray as fact. Why should that be so disturbing to you, especially if you swear by it? I'd think you'd have no problem proving your findings without resorting to the supposed failings of nerdy engineers Vs listeners Vs DIYaudio's unfriendliness Vs the sound of wire Vs ten reviewers Vs +30 years tweaking.... Seriously it was just pathetic, in my view, certainly less than scientific to say the least, nothing that could ever sway me.
Isn't it easy to defend your position by pointing to the failings of everything else? How weak a position to have to defend your findings by every other means possible aside from anything concrete? Hooow conveeeeniant too. These are the walls of voodoo where ignorance takes root, and I believe to be a hindrance to true advancement, beneficial only to bloodsuckers.
Do people not deserve the best and most correct information possible? Do you not?
You're welcome to your say as equally as I am to mine. I've no trouble at all defending my position, maybe you ought to revisit yours instead of defending it so weakly.
Feel free to reply to this should you so choose, I'm not too worried about it either way, and certainly don't feel the need to make hit and run posts in response to someone who'd disagree with me.
Additionally what I enjoy about DIYaudio is the level of quality information freely available here, so that fewer people are forced to rely on those who'd profit off of selling them voodoo. If I contribute to help keeping it that way, thanks for the compliment.
No hard feelings either way, but I don't think I love you.
Portlandmike said:
Mike, "it need not be taken as a personal attack".... followed by a rather extensive one, and for no other purpose than to attack at that.
Hardly worth the bother, Michael..thanks for the laugh.
Best Regards,
Chris
Don't waste your time Chris, we have a lot of new working stuff to engineer from scratch, and we can't afford arguing with "30 years of tweaking by ear" audiophiles. They live in another world.
Come on, let's design some more expensive electronic toys for these children 😀
Come on, let's design some more expensive electronic toys for these children 😀
Re: awaken flat earthers!
hehe - I think he's got to pay back some hefty student loans for that engineering degree, given his power cord pricing 🙂
I always love it when high prices are used to lend some sort of prestige to a product that is pretty much still just a power cord that anyone can build for peanuts, even if they do buy cryo wires and connectors, etc.
The best one ever, though, has to be the $485 wooden knob tweak (price per knob, not for the pair!)
http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/M...reen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAM&Category_Code=VOLUME
Peter
Ric Schultz said:
hehe - I think he's got to pay back some hefty student loans for that engineering degree, given his power cord pricing 🙂
I always love it when high prices are used to lend some sort of prestige to a product that is pretty much still just a power cord that anyone can build for peanuts, even if they do buy cryo wires and connectors, etc.
The best one ever, though, has to be the $485 wooden knob tweak (price per knob, not for the pair!)
http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/M...reen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAM&Category_Code=VOLUME
Peter
Do you think that the prices of the cables are funny?
Then check this out:
http://www.marigoaudio.com/CD_MATS.htm
And this:
http://www.marigoaudio.com/VTS_dots.htm
I can't stop laughing...
Then check this out:
http://www.marigoaudio.com/CD_MATS.htm
And this:
http://www.marigoaudio.com/VTS_dots.htm
I can't stop laughing...
Does the term "negative price eleasticity curve" ring a bell!
Normally, as price goes down, volume goes up. Profits may or may not go up. Its what one tries to optimize in biz.
Sometimes, and high end audio is a prime example, when price goes up, volume goes up! That's the negative price eleasticity curve as I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What a great biz to be in. Charge more, sell more units, profits are proportional to price squared! Cool!
I refer to this type of market as a Robin Hood market.
In this forum, we have rich, poor, and Robin Hoods.
Robin Hood was thought to be a crook by some, and a hero to others.
High end audio is a great way to redestibute wealth, and I dare say, even guys makeing really expensive stuff are most typically not as well to do as there customers.
More power to them.
Mike
Chris,
Sorry! I actually went to delete that message, but missed my edit by a couple minutes. I was frustrated because I would have really like to talk to the guy who did the CIAudio amp that got such great reviews to see what he did. A guy who makes money from his tweaking is arguably (and I know your argument) more dedicated and systematic in his mods and listening than a bunch of part timers. They might even have multiple amps and ears they can A/B for example. Something most of us here don't have the ability to do.
Eva, Sorry that you don't use listening. I know your attitude toward it. Didn't you say using your ears was like debugging a circuit with a 50% tolerence volt meter or something like that. Some of us just don't have as good equipement as others I guess. I've got several AP's, nice scopes.... that I use. I use them to get it close and find gross errors. I find that to be much more like the 50% volt meter when the end result is sonic performance. It finds gross errors, but as designs get more "tuned" the equipement will see know difference while the sonics continue to change, sometimes very signicantly.
We just differ in opinion.
Normally, as price goes down, volume goes up. Profits may or may not go up. Its what one tries to optimize in biz.
Sometimes, and high end audio is a prime example, when price goes up, volume goes up! That's the negative price eleasticity curve as I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What a great biz to be in. Charge more, sell more units, profits are proportional to price squared! Cool!
I refer to this type of market as a Robin Hood market.
In this forum, we have rich, poor, and Robin Hoods.
Robin Hood was thought to be a crook by some, and a hero to others.
High end audio is a great way to redestibute wealth, and I dare say, even guys makeing really expensive stuff are most typically not as well to do as there customers.
More power to them.
Mike
Chris,
Sorry! I actually went to delete that message, but missed my edit by a couple minutes. I was frustrated because I would have really like to talk to the guy who did the CIAudio amp that got such great reviews to see what he did. A guy who makes money from his tweaking is arguably (and I know your argument) more dedicated and systematic in his mods and listening than a bunch of part timers. They might even have multiple amps and ears they can A/B for example. Something most of us here don't have the ability to do.
Eva, Sorry that you don't use listening. I know your attitude toward it. Didn't you say using your ears was like debugging a circuit with a 50% tolerence volt meter or something like that. Some of us just don't have as good equipement as others I guess. I've got several AP's, nice scopes.... that I use. I use them to get it close and find gross errors. I find that to be much more like the 50% volt meter when the end result is sonic performance. It finds gross errors, but as designs get more "tuned" the equipement will see know difference while the sonics continue to change, sometimes very signicantly.
We just differ in opinion.
The "negative price eleasticity curve" has nothing to do with Robin Hood, because those making profit from that "curve" are stealing from the rich to make rich themselves, while Robin Hood was stealing from the rich to give it to the poor.
Also, I do use hearing in the same way I would use a FFT, for example for optimizing passive filters for custom multi-way systems. However, after reaching some point of optimization, I have to use A/B switches with alligator clips to compare because I can't remember at all small changes in energy vs frequency distribution or perceived source focus when it takes me a few seconds to swap filter components and polarities.
Hearing does not only produce different random results for the same input depending on environmental factors (like a multimeter with 50% error), but it's also very adaptive and self compensating depending on the "input signal". For example, I have been experimenting for a couple of days with a 25Khz to 50Khz class-D circuit intended for low frequency amplification that starts to roll-off above 5Khz. Furthermore, I used a 6,5" speaker as a reactive dummy test load, which also suffers a roll-off above 5Khz, and music as a convenient complex test signal. This setup was not intended for listening at all, but it was producing some sound in the room and that sound was reaching my ears while I was focused in other things. Now my brain has got used to it and it has compensated for that lack of treble in such a way that when I listen to the same (previously felt as flat) systems that I was listening two days ago, I feel an excess of treble.
The lesson to learn here is that you can make a real mess if you take too serious your listening impressions, as they have a strong dependence on many things other than the plain "input signal". Fortunately, I think that I know quite well human hearing pitfalls by now (consider that I started to play with loudspeakers and chip-amps at age 15 and with a very open scientific mind free of audiophile topics).
All our senses work in the same way. Our sight is self adaptive to light intensity and colour perception and grain resolution depend on real light levels. Our temperature perception through the skin is just relative to the own temperature of the skin, so you can feel something as very hot with one finger and ice cold with another... Hearing is not better than that.
Also, I do use hearing in the same way I would use a FFT, for example for optimizing passive filters for custom multi-way systems. However, after reaching some point of optimization, I have to use A/B switches with alligator clips to compare because I can't remember at all small changes in energy vs frequency distribution or perceived source focus when it takes me a few seconds to swap filter components and polarities.
Hearing does not only produce different random results for the same input depending on environmental factors (like a multimeter with 50% error), but it's also very adaptive and self compensating depending on the "input signal". For example, I have been experimenting for a couple of days with a 25Khz to 50Khz class-D circuit intended for low frequency amplification that starts to roll-off above 5Khz. Furthermore, I used a 6,5" speaker as a reactive dummy test load, which also suffers a roll-off above 5Khz, and music as a convenient complex test signal. This setup was not intended for listening at all, but it was producing some sound in the room and that sound was reaching my ears while I was focused in other things. Now my brain has got used to it and it has compensated for that lack of treble in such a way that when I listen to the same (previously felt as flat) systems that I was listening two days ago, I feel an excess of treble.
The lesson to learn here is that you can make a real mess if you take too serious your listening impressions, as they have a strong dependence on many things other than the plain "input signal". Fortunately, I think that I know quite well human hearing pitfalls by now (consider that I started to play with loudspeakers and chip-amps at age 15 and with a very open scientific mind free of audiophile topics).
All our senses work in the same way. Our sight is self adaptive to light intensity and colour perception and grain resolution depend on real light levels. Our temperature perception through the skin is just relative to the own temperature of the skin, so you can feel something as very hot with one finger and ice cold with another... Hearing is not better than that.
Eva said:
Eva,
Well said.
I personally have yet to find quick changes to be very useful in determinng subtile things. If there are slight changes in frequency response for example, you hear that, and it confuses other, perhaps more important aspects.
I usually make a change, and listen off and on over days or often weeks.
Often, my initial reaction will be I like "some change" in the sound, then after lots of listening, I get use to that, as you did, and start hearing the other things. So my issue is not that my listening "VU" is 50% accurate, its that its really a slow process.
I agree with you😀, except I know personally some "high end" Robin Hoods who are not rich, just passionate about audio. They rely on high price to make up for low volume. Very tough to get rich in High End audio these days! But yeah, I guess they are not "giving" to the poor. I stand corrected.
Mike
Portlandmike said:
Thanks for that heartfelt apology, Mike, and the ensuing justification thereof. Consistancy at its finest. How hard done by you must feel because of me.
Anyway you've no need to apologize, for I appreciate the chance to know you that much better, and will remember it.
Guys, please try to keep to the topic and stop bashing one another. I'd prefer not to close this thread.
It's great to know that Fischer has added aluminium oxide ceramic insulators to their product line. I will see if I have luck again ordering directly from them, last time I got 50 SK-514-50 heatsinks and 100 steel clips quite cheap.
Eva, I can pass you the Spanish Fischer sales contact if you want, I was talking to him some weeks ago.
BTW: I can't find that ceramic insulators in their web, nor searching in it, so please, could you give me the exact part number? If so, I can call him and ask for a quotation for different quantities
Best regards,
Sergio
BTW: I can't find that ceramic insulators in their web, nor searching in it, so please, could you give me the exact part number? If so, I can call him and ask for a quotation for different quantities
Best regards,
Sergio
The insulators are on the online catalog, check that link: http://www.fischerelektronik.de/fischer/uploadfischerfcool/Fischer/E.1.6.pdf
Also, I've become a bit reluctant to contact Spanish dealers of anything as I've found them to be quite inefficient in the past, while in other countries they are just glad to sell you anything you wish, even when you want 50 pieces instead of 5000 🙂
Also, I've become a bit reluctant to contact Spanish dealers of anything as I've found them to be quite inefficient in the past, while in other countries they are just glad to sell you anything you wish, even when you want 50 pieces instead of 5000 🙂
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