You use the word voodoo for anything that crosses the line of your imagined reality. You do listen to caps....some would say that is voodoo. How about wires...too voodoo for you?..I know you can say that caps have lower impedance and dissipation factor, inductance, etc. So maybe there is some science as to why caps sound different. Let me give you an example that will have you spilling your coffee. A friend of mine wanted to have some custom polystyrene caps made (1uf 100V) for use in his mods on the Acoustat electrostats. He got some tin foil, some wire he liked and some solder he liked and sent it off to 5 different cap manufacturers. So, they all wound the caps using probably the same German polystyrene, the very same tin foil, the very same solder and the very same wire....you know what I am going to say....they all sounded different....oops there goes the coffee. No doubt, you will try to imagine why this is so. I will leave that up to your mind.
Actually ignorance means the lack of knowing something. Knowledge is not a bunch of facts and thoughts and opinions in your head. It is the direct experience of something using ALL your senses. Can you trust what you hear? Does it always have to make sense? I would say you are ignorant of the possibilities of damping. You would say I am Mr. Voodoo. The labeling allows the righteous dismissing of what you do not want to deal with.....what if you had the guts and open mind to try the heatsink thing and heard a difference.....you would not want to be wrong! would you?....so you would not even try it. And since your ego is holding that it cannot make a difference so strongly, you probably would not allow yourself to hear it.
There is this guy that does not believe that wires sound different. He thinks that amps sound different, but not wires. He has befriended a budding audiophile and as tried to impress his opinion on him. Both of them are invited to a home where they are listening on highly modified electrostats. At one point they take out two interconnects to A/B....the non believer runs into the kitchen and closes the door. The budding audiophile stays to see what this is about. The three all agree totally on the sound difference between the cables....this story is real...it happened.
Many engineering types are very ignorant of things that can make a sonic difference because anything outside of their little mental box is considered Voodoo, or whatever. Not everything in sound can be explained or measured, at least not at this time.
I do not dismiss good engineering. However, I do not dismiss using an open mind to try things that people say makes a difference. Most people do not make stuff up and put it on a forum and then create a product out of it. They actually listened and heard something....now sometimes they are fooling themselves (a minority of the time....you would say nearly all the time) but mostly they heard something that is repeatable.
I TRUST my own experience and I honor and respect the EXPERIENCE of others. I never put down anyone who is describing what they heard. If you said that blue nail polish on resistors made the sound more cool...he he...than I would take you on your word. I would not say..."you are crazy...you did not take your meds....utter nonsense". I may not want to buy some blue nail polish but I might....he he.
I am sure these few words will do little to turn you into a free thinking and experimental/experiential person. Tweaking is best left to those without preconceptions.....this is true science...not to prove something is right, but to find out what is possible....true scientific exploration.
You do.....the Voodoo....that I love so well....cha cha cha
Actually ignorance means the lack of knowing something. Knowledge is not a bunch of facts and thoughts and opinions in your head. It is the direct experience of something using ALL your senses. Can you trust what you hear? Does it always have to make sense? I would say you are ignorant of the possibilities of damping. You would say I am Mr. Voodoo. The labeling allows the righteous dismissing of what you do not want to deal with.....what if you had the guts and open mind to try the heatsink thing and heard a difference.....you would not want to be wrong! would you?....so you would not even try it. And since your ego is holding that it cannot make a difference so strongly, you probably would not allow yourself to hear it.
There is this guy that does not believe that wires sound different. He thinks that amps sound different, but not wires. He has befriended a budding audiophile and as tried to impress his opinion on him. Both of them are invited to a home where they are listening on highly modified electrostats. At one point they take out two interconnects to A/B....the non believer runs into the kitchen and closes the door. The budding audiophile stays to see what this is about. The three all agree totally on the sound difference between the cables....this story is real...it happened.
Many engineering types are very ignorant of things that can make a sonic difference because anything outside of their little mental box is considered Voodoo, or whatever. Not everything in sound can be explained or measured, at least not at this time.
I do not dismiss good engineering. However, I do not dismiss using an open mind to try things that people say makes a difference. Most people do not make stuff up and put it on a forum and then create a product out of it. They actually listened and heard something....now sometimes they are fooling themselves (a minority of the time....you would say nearly all the time) but mostly they heard something that is repeatable.
I TRUST my own experience and I honor and respect the EXPERIENCE of others. I never put down anyone who is describing what they heard. If you said that blue nail polish on resistors made the sound more cool...he he...than I would take you on your word. I would not say..."you are crazy...you did not take your meds....utter nonsense". I may not want to buy some blue nail polish but I might....he he.
I am sure these few words will do little to turn you into a free thinking and experimental/experiential person. Tweaking is best left to those without preconceptions.....this is true science...not to prove something is right, but to find out what is possible....true scientific exploration.
You do.....the Voodoo....that I love so well....cha cha cha
Ric,
It is not the fact that you believe that the 'voodoo' is real it is your ill conceived comments that us 'engineering types' can't think out of the box or are close-minded.
Such is not the case, but we weigh far more factors than you, especially because we have that engineering background, which gives us a better insight into what works and what doesn't.
I'll agree with you on almost anything but will quickly add that cables, or any other component, doesn't have magic properties that seem to challenge the laws of physics.
If you hear differences between cables I will most likely comment that this due to that fact that its reduced, or increased, capacitance per feet is interacting with, for example, your amplifier.
You're trying to 'optimize' your system by using the most influential set of equipment there is; your ears and your brain. Us engineering types like to take at least part of that out of the equation by controlling some of the parameters in the equation. I.e. use an amplifier with known specs, similar for loudspeakers, etc. etc.
You on the other hand spend countless hours evaluating something without a benchmark of any kind, or any idea what the equipment is actually doing to the signal provided by the source.
I know it is a hobby for you, and with your current 'evaluation method' will keep you busy indefinitely, but us engineering types like to take a few shortcuts. Hence we use the laws of physics and some math to make greater strides and cover significantly more ground to reach our audio nirvana.
And that, my friend, is the voodoo that we do ...
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
It is not the fact that you believe that the 'voodoo' is real it is your ill conceived comments that us 'engineering types' can't think out of the box or are close-minded.
Such is not the case, but we weigh far more factors than you, especially because we have that engineering background, which gives us a better insight into what works and what doesn't.
I'll agree with you on almost anything but will quickly add that cables, or any other component, doesn't have magic properties that seem to challenge the laws of physics.
If you hear differences between cables I will most likely comment that this due to that fact that its reduced, or increased, capacitance per feet is interacting with, for example, your amplifier.
You're trying to 'optimize' your system by using the most influential set of equipment there is; your ears and your brain. Us engineering types like to take at least part of that out of the equation by controlling some of the parameters in the equation. I.e. use an amplifier with known specs, similar for loudspeakers, etc. etc.
You on the other hand spend countless hours evaluating something without a benchmark of any kind, or any idea what the equipment is actually doing to the signal provided by the source.
I know it is a hobby for you, and with your current 'evaluation method' will keep you busy indefinitely, but us engineering types like to take a few shortcuts. Hence we use the laws of physics and some math to make greater strides and cover significantly more ground to reach our audio nirvana.
And that, my friend, is the voodoo that we do ...
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
SSassen said:
Most excellent reply I must say.
Ignorance wears many faces Ric. It's also the willingness to so quickly and blindly take the defensive and maintain your position in the face of real factual knowledge and experience which is based on science and physics, the measurable, and the repeatable.
Hm, can I think of an example for you? How about "creationsism" Vs evolution, now appearing in courts near you (true story).
So Ric, maybe you tried this with smacking an electrolytic as hard as you can, heard a bit of a thump, or discovered microphonics in poorly chosen cables or designed systems, and blindly applied it to everything?
Did you have enough faith in your convictions to repeat the experiment with the UCD module with an open mind orrrrr just reach for the rich looking plate of brass? Be honest.
Let's just say you did so, did you realize it would be running hotter due to less efficient thermal conduction, and perhaps, just perhaps, the physical retributions of that would better explain any sonic differences? It takes some out of the voodoo box thinking to have thought of that possibility though doesn't it?
Five caps rolled by five guys or even manufacturing processes sound different.... I'm shocked. I'll note that you neglected to state whether or not they all measured the same (very unlikely they would have).
" or any idea what the equipment is actually doing to the signal provided by the source."
My friend, I built a DIY UCD without so much as a scope, using nothing but my ears and my ideas as how the signals interract with the equipment. I have a good idea what's going on, and I dare you to try the same by using your method of ears only and neglecting the workings behind it.
You're absolutly right that I am not going to open my mind to the extent that I'd blindly accept your average commercial marketting add without wanting to question the thought process that was behind it.
I'd bet you money I could make a small killing selling audiophile grade window tint to the ignorant of the world but in the end it won't make my amps sound much better.
Glad to see you're sticking around anyway.
Chris
I personally think that nerdy engineer types like yourself actually have far far less factors to consider because you think you know it all...already. No, engineering will not give the best sound all by itself....this is your mistake...the logical dualistic mindset is linked to the ego and righteousness...you need to use your heart/ear brain more.
You are in the minority as far as the sound of cables goes (among high end audiophiles)....it is back to the engineer versus the listener once again....your benchmarks are merely blips on a machine. They mean very little to what the ear hears. "known specs"....most all amps have flat frequency response, but they all sound different....you are just trying to rationalize your narrow minded thinking.....dismissing my 30 years of listening/tweaking/designing/testing and selling countless products to satisfied customers....this is more than a hobby....this is my passion and I make a living doing it. Customers get to hear the results of all my "tweakings"....they like it. Of course, my customers are all from the "dark side" and believe things like "cables sound different''......oh my god....what a concept!
Back to my Voodoo that I do so well.
I am sure one of you will want the last word, so have at it. I am closed on this issue. More fun mods to the UCD modules tonight, oh boy!
You are in the minority as far as the sound of cables goes (among high end audiophiles)....it is back to the engineer versus the listener once again....your benchmarks are merely blips on a machine. They mean very little to what the ear hears. "known specs"....most all amps have flat frequency response, but they all sound different....you are just trying to rationalize your narrow minded thinking.....dismissing my 30 years of listening/tweaking/designing/testing and selling countless products to satisfied customers....this is more than a hobby....this is my passion and I make a living doing it. Customers get to hear the results of all my "tweakings"....they like it. Of course, my customers are all from the "dark side" and believe things like "cables sound different''......oh my god....what a concept!
Back to my Voodoo that I do so well.
I am sure one of you will want the last word, so have at it. I am closed on this issue. More fun mods to the UCD modules tonight, oh boy!
Last word
Like I was saying...
WWWWWWWwhhoooooooooooooooossssssshhhhhhhhhhh!!
You've just got a pair of blinders on that won't be smacked off you, I'm afraid you won't be seeing the light today. Speaking of which, I have this window tint for you to audition..
Like I was saying...
WWWWWWWwhhoooooooooooooooossssssshhhhhhhhhhh!!
You've just got a pair of blinders on that won't be smacked off you, I'm afraid you won't be seeing the light today. Speaking of which, I have this window tint for you to audition..
Vodoo is to make a class-D amplifier work from scratch (and not a radio transmitter or a smoke bomb 😀 ), particularly when you try to avoid copying previous art.
On the other hand, playing with exotic capacitors and wires as if they were toys and imagining a lot of things that don't really happen (while overlooking what actually happens) is something that even my 3 year old brother can do better than any of those audiophiles.
If you don't like engineering, why do you use engineered modules and components? Damn, next time build your own stuff from scratch (according to your statements, all what you need is just a couple of ears 😀 ).
Blame engineers if you want... You all need engineers as much as children need toy manufacturers 😀
On the other hand, playing with exotic capacitors and wires as if they were toys and imagining a lot of things that don't really happen (while overlooking what actually happens) is something that even my 3 year old brother can do better than any of those audiophiles.
If you don't like engineering, why do you use engineered modules and components? Damn, next time build your own stuff from scratch (according to your statements, all what you need is just a couple of ears 😀 ).
Blame engineers if you want... You all need engineers as much as children need toy manufacturers 😀
Vooooodoooo
Ric,
its like those "audiophiles" who believe that adding in their $900.00 IEC power cord make the sound better. Simple question here. How do you double blind A-B compare two power cables?
The brain does not have the ability to "remember" the difference between two components that are so close if the time between comparisons is more than just a few seconds. This has been proved time and time again.
Second question, how can say 2 metres of fancy schmancy power cable affect the sound when you have perhaps many many kilometres of you power cable from the wall plug to the power station transformer with so many breakers in between.
This is voodooo.
My same question is posed to those who try different capacitors/resistors in equipment.
HOW DO THEY SWITCH THEM IN AND OUT TO DO A DOUBLE BLIND A-B COMPARISON?
The answer is simple. They cannot do this. So a lot of this is voooodoooo.
The power of the double blind test is powerful.
Those pesky fancy RCA cables are more voodoooo. The capacitance of typical cheap shielded cable is so low that any respectable preamplifier has ZERO trouble driving just a few hundred pico Farads anyway.
I do agree that long lengths of high inductive speaker cable can roll the high end off but you would need many metres of very poor speaker cable to do this.
Ric,
its like those "audiophiles" who believe that adding in their $900.00 IEC power cord make the sound better. Simple question here. How do you double blind A-B compare two power cables?
The brain does not have the ability to "remember" the difference between two components that are so close if the time between comparisons is more than just a few seconds. This has been proved time and time again.
Second question, how can say 2 metres of fancy schmancy power cable affect the sound when you have perhaps many many kilometres of you power cable from the wall plug to the power station transformer with so many breakers in between.
This is voodooo.
My same question is posed to those who try different capacitors/resistors in equipment.
HOW DO THEY SWITCH THEM IN AND OUT TO DO A DOUBLE BLIND A-B COMPARISON?
The answer is simple. They cannot do this. So a lot of this is voooodoooo.
The power of the double blind test is powerful.
Those pesky fancy RCA cables are more voodoooo. The capacitance of typical cheap shielded cable is so low that any respectable preamplifier has ZERO trouble driving just a few hundred pico Farads anyway.
I do agree that long lengths of high inductive speaker cable can roll the high end off but you would need many metres of very poor speaker cable to do this.
Going alllll the way over to the other extreme thinking everything needs double blind testing or listening results are useless is equally pushing the envelope of ignorance I'm afraid. Plenty of differences are obvious enough there's no need at all for something like a double blind test..
As if you'd really think the brain can't retain how something sounds for more than a few seconds either.. were that the case we'd be debating which log sounded best when we beat on it with the bones of our defeated adversaries.
As if you'd really think the brain can't retain how something sounds for more than a few seconds either.. were that the case we'd be debating which log sounded best when we beat on it with the bones of our defeated adversaries.
Ric Schultz said:
Ric,
You bring up an interesting point that I hadn't thought about. I recently changed the chassis of my UcD's to a Denon PCM 2000 IVR. The chassis of the denon has damping material all over the place. On every surface practically. The heatsinks are very well damped by a tar like material sandwiched with another plate.
This I will say, that chassis change made more difference to sound than any mode I ever did on the board!
Was it damping or IE vs Toriod or dual bridges, differnt bypass caps... or all fo the above I'm not sure but I had ignored the damping.
Some of us are still wise enough not to dismiss things just becuase we don't understand how it could matter. AT one point, I couldn't see how wire could matter. Some still don't or think its all explainable. Fine for them. I've heard stuff I can't measure to many times. The voodoo is what I really like about audio.
That's the difference between great and ordinary audio.
Sorry to read your getting beat up here for using your ears. Hope you don't get find better things than thow your pearls before swine, but frankly....
classd4sure said:
Chris,
FYI,
The latest 6.1 rev of the UcD400 uses rather thick ceramic insulators under the fets. I'd say they are 1mm or more!
I'd assume this is to further decouple fets from the heat sink and thus the chassis.
Mechanical stress on parts is one of the key problems for IC manufactures making high accuaracy "DC" parts. Offset of op amps and references, especialy surface mount, are affected by die stresses. That's why you will never see a top grade reference in the SOT23 for example. Not saying this is it, but if it is a reason for improved sound... there are lots of possibilities.
Makes me think I shouldn't ignore the pcb mounting holes on the UcD!
When will I get to that!
Mike
Mike, I have silver, bronze, and limo, all audiophile grade!
I'd already mentioned the use of the ceramic isolators used in the UCD and that the reasons stated behind them were better thermal conduction.
Bruno or Jan-Peter are more than welcome to correct me on that if I'm wrong. I'd love to hear it was for mechanical damping.
I can assure you the differences you heard were from the different supply.
Being a commercial amp the black tar used was more likely to save on screws, although, it's not at all uncommon for commercial junk to buy into voodoo, they invented it after all.
I'd already mentioned the use of the ceramic isolators used in the UCD and that the reasons stated behind them were better thermal conduction.
Bruno or Jan-Peter are more than welcome to correct me on that if I'm wrong. I'd love to hear it was for mechanical damping.
I can assure you the differences you heard were from the different supply.
Being a commercial amp the black tar used was more likely to save on screws, although, it's not at all uncommon for commercial junk to buy into voodoo, they invented it after all.
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
It was previously mentioned that the purpose of these thick aluminium oxide ceramic insulators is to reduce capacitance and prevent the heatsink or the chasis from acting as a big antenna (of course, when you don't understand switching-mode electronics at all you can tell that they are for "mechanical decoupling" 😀 )
It was previously mentioned that the purpose of these thick aluminium oxide ceramic insulators is to reduce capacitance and prevent the heatsink or the chasis from acting as a big antenna (of course, when you don't understand switching-mode electronics at all you can tell that they are for "mechanical decoupling" 😀 )
classd4sure said:
Hi Chris,
Not sure about your "silver bronze and limo comment." I wan't aiming anything at your btw.
I don't think the ceramic is for mechanical vibration. Sorry I missed the origninal post.
I tend to not dismiss things out of hand so easy. That's all. I've seen two denon products that went to extreems very costly extreems, to damp the chassis. One was a CD player, the other this monster integrated. Maybe its just sells more becuase its percieved as quality, very heavy.... Having working with high volume manufactures, I'd be hard pressed to see them do that very expensive treatment if it were only for perception of feel. The old marketing addage is that if your going to spend a buck, put it where the customer will see it, or hear it in this case. Hell, most designs won't use a $2 op amp and use a $1 instead!
Ric may have just giving a very great peice of advice, and to just dismiss it and namecall his craft voodoo..... I just fear that this community chases away the class of people that may bring it to the next level.
Why cast pearls before swine....
Best Regards,
Mike
Portlandmike said:
I would add mechanical damping to everything I build if some audiophile was willing to pay 10 times more money for it that way!!
That's how the market works. First you create a non existing problem, then you earn big money by solving it.
Eva said:
Eva,
Your intellect is only surpassed by your ability to be rude!
You need a charm lesson 😀
btw. I was never saying that the ceramic was for vibration isolation. Anyone with a stitch of acoustics knowledge would know that is a poor choice for damping.
two posts responded too, same page, totally different topics. I just put them together. Won't do that again.
Also, don't bother with any of this damping stuff. It doesn't matter for SMPS designers unless it causes a failure. 😉
And Eva, I really do appreciate your expertise and advice!
As for damping. It could be marketing spin. Could be. Then again, I'm also trying to come to terms with why I've heard major changes to the same exact UcD amps in a different chassis. From an engineering standpoint, I find it very hard to explain and welcome new ideas.
Mike😀
Sorry Mike, you just got me pre-coffee today.
I have this working theory that light exerts energy onto the amp that raises the noise floor in a non euphonic way. Thereby I'm releasing a product to cure it, known as audiophile window tint. It should retail ffffforr I dunno.... $200 a square foot?
Results are best where power line cables are burried underground..... of course.
I'd be willing to bet I could sell that BS to someone with too much money and not enough brains, let alone go one step further and find a reviewer who'd swear by it and even grant it some top innovation of the year award.
Then maybe we can sit back and take bets on how long it takes before some tweaker adds a set of blinds to it.
I know this is brutal sarcasm but to denounce engineering and in this case even common sense is utter lunacy.
How about you, would you opt for less optimal cooling in place of some gimmick?
I'd like to think some things can be dismissed outright.
Eva
don't ever change 😀
I have this working theory that light exerts energy onto the amp that raises the noise floor in a non euphonic way. Thereby I'm releasing a product to cure it, known as audiophile window tint. It should retail ffffforr I dunno.... $200 a square foot?
Results are best where power line cables are burried underground..... of course.
I'd be willing to bet I could sell that BS to someone with too much money and not enough brains, let alone go one step further and find a reviewer who'd swear by it and even grant it some top innovation of the year award.
Then maybe we can sit back and take bets on how long it takes before some tweaker adds a set of blinds to it.
I know this is brutal sarcasm but to denounce engineering and in this case even common sense is utter lunacy.
How about you, would you opt for less optimal cooling in place of some gimmick?
I'd like to think some things can be dismissed outright.
Eva
don't ever change 😀classd4sure said:Sorry Mike, you just got me pre-coffee today.
I have this working theory that light exerts energy onto the amp that raises the noise floor in a non euphonic way. Thereby I'm releasing a product to cure it, known as audiophile window tint. It should retail ffffforr I dunno.... $200 a square foot?
Results are best where power line cables are burried underground..... of course.
I'd be willing to bet I could sell that BS to someone with too much money and not enough brains, let alone go one step further and find a reviewer who'd swear by it and even grant it some top innovation of the year award.
Then maybe we can sit back and take bets on how long it takes before some tweaker adds a set of blinds to it.
I know this is brutal sarcasm but to denounce engineering and in this case even common sense is utter lunacy.
How about you, would you opt for less optimal cooling in place of some gimmick?
I'd like to think some things can be dismissed outright.
Eva
Chris,
There is alot of scam stuff in audio, but as I've posted before, I've ran into way to many things over the years that I could not explain, and actually haven't ran into anyone else who can in the DIY forum.
Its like this. Someone says they hear an audible difference.
There is a class of engineer, and Ric alluded to them, who don't listen. I've had half a dozen experiences over the years where every engineering bone in my body said it can't make a difference, but over long periods of listening and several ears, it did.
I work under the premise that we can't measure as well as we hear. I know for sure that many participants don't agree.
Vibration seems to me to be clearly capable of making audible differences. The difference between a silicon strain gauge and a transistor is a few orders of magnetude of sensitivity. My experiece is that affects 80dB down can be clearly audible if they are either not harmonically related or significantly higher order harmonics.
I will confess that I didn't know that anyone was saying the ceramic insulator was part of the mechanical vibration thing.
I thought what Ric was saying is to damp your heatsink. My though was you want to keep the board well damped. The output transistors are likely at the very end of the list of what might be vibration sensitive. I aslo suspect the grease makes for a very good damper coupled with the hunk of aluminum. Caps, especially the ceramic ones, transistors with low level inputs and IC's are likely bigger issues.
Great care is taken in op amps to reduce stress induced offsets. There are sometimes complete layout changes to minimize its affect. Its a major concern to good DC performance, at least it was at LTC. That's a DC thing, but it is easy to see it become an AC thing with vibration. There are tricks in PCB layout for references where your cut out three sides around the reference to reduce board stresses and it has about a 6 dB improvement for SOT-23 references in DC accuracy.
You can dismiss this if you like, I don't. I see many potential ways it could be a problem.
Have you ever listened to an amp driving a dummy load. You can hear it sing. It seems the inverse relationship should be there too. So, my sense perhaps is not common. I'll even risk being wrong and explore it. Its always done me well.
You joke about light sensitivity. I recently, two months ago, released a ECO to solve a light induced problem in a aircraft headset. The boom mic was a very good noise canceling design. The problem was that when light hit the back of the mic, through the muff and housing, when passed through a propeller (chopped), light source being sun light, it caused a huge signal that was percieved as acoustic noise, but luckly, we discovered it was light sensitivity. Light was making it to the mics jfet preamp die somehow.
I'm not by the way, saying you should market your idea just yet!
Be glad modern plastic for parts blocks light is all.
As Jim Williams would say, cherish the clues!
Best Regards,
Mike
p.s. Seems like buried cables would be best😉
Hi,
I have personal experience which is in line with what Mike wrote.
LF356 opamp in SO8 can act as strain gage. With dc gain setting around 200x or maybe even less (IIRC) I could get 200mV output offset just by bending the PCB. Final design of course used DIP8 package.
Jfets are notoriously light sensitive. We had problems with poorly coated jfet chips incorporated into pyroelectric sensors. Glass encapsulated diodes like 1N914 are also sensitive. It is no problem to reset microprocessor board by light from Q switched 532nm laser.
There is a big difference in radiated EMI susceptibility betwen shielded and unshielded power cable in a setup where power cable is used after filtered distribution block (or even one fitted only with MOVs which act as a capacitor). But you need LISN (line impedance stabilization network) and spectrum amalyzer to measure that.
Best regards,
Jaka Racman
I have personal experience which is in line with what Mike wrote.
LF356 opamp in SO8 can act as strain gage. With dc gain setting around 200x or maybe even less (IIRC) I could get 200mV output offset just by bending the PCB. Final design of course used DIP8 package.
Jfets are notoriously light sensitive. We had problems with poorly coated jfet chips incorporated into pyroelectric sensors. Glass encapsulated diodes like 1N914 are also sensitive. It is no problem to reset microprocessor board by light from Q switched 532nm laser.
There is a big difference in radiated EMI susceptibility betwen shielded and unshielded power cable in a setup where power cable is used after filtered distribution block (or even one fitted only with MOVs which act as a capacitor). But you need LISN (line impedance stabilization network) and spectrum amalyzer to measure that.
Best regards,
Jaka Racman
Jaka, Mike,
Does any of that really compare to the ridiculousness of "damping" a heatsink claiming it could in some way change the sound?
Obviously a CDROM or record player has their own reasons for mechanical damping, maybe even for tubes.... as a stretch.
Mike I already brought up the magneto restrictive properties of the amp as well.
It is due to the ferrite core and no amount of heatsink damping is going to get rid of it.
Where is the insanity going to stop? Should we use a 1" thick piece of rubber to damp the module from the resonating case? Why not add ports and baffling to the chassis in order to tune the mechanical resonance thereby tuning the response of the amp?
Come on. Enough already.
Does any of that really compare to the ridiculousness of "damping" a heatsink claiming it could in some way change the sound?
Obviously a CDROM or record player has their own reasons for mechanical damping, maybe even for tubes.... as a stretch.
Mike I already brought up the magneto restrictive properties of the amp as well.
It is due to the ferrite core and no amount of heatsink damping is going to get rid of it.
Where is the insanity going to stop? Should we use a 1" thick piece of rubber to damp the module from the resonating case? Why not add ports and baffling to the chassis in order to tune the mechanical resonance thereby tuning the response of the amp?
Come on. Enough already.
classd4sure said:
Chris,
Your right. You shouldn't bother with vibration. Even if the vibrational Q of a heatsink is often over 20, that vibration could never be transmitted to a board, mounted to the heatsink, even if it does have appreciable mass and is fairly stiff.
Never could matter.
Mike
Mike
Hi,
this thread is becoming Bronze heatsinks, split from advanced GainClone thread. There are some posts by jneutron that explain possible other effects except vibration that can alter the sound.
But I will quote another one of his excellent posts:
Best regards,
Jaka Racman
this thread is becoming Bronze heatsinks, split from advanced GainClone thread. There are some posts by jneutron that explain possible other effects except vibration that can alter the sound.
But I will quote another one of his excellent posts:
Best regards,
Jaka Racman
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