How about data instead? I just read a very nice Engineering Brief by Michael Uwins ("Analog Hearts, Digital Minds?" from 138th AES Convention) which used a very cleverly designed experiment to understand how the rituals and nostalgia of vinyl affect our perceptions of the sound.
Not so much courage as ability to read pseudoscientific ad copy.
Yes, I also spend my days doing PCB design (and system design with cables etc.) always employing the best techniques for optimum signal integrity, so I am aware of how to distribute digital signals for optimum signal integrity/reduced EMC problems....
As I have said digital is pretty forgiving, you can do designs that will work without having a good return path for the signals (usually meaning no ground plane) but the system noise will be much higher and the signal integrity will suffer, the same goes (and even more so) for sending signals down a cable.... Co-ax shields the signal from external interference and helps stops the cable also broadcasting EMI, you also have an intimate relationship between the signal and its return path (critical). Twisted pair is a compromise and not as good as co-ax in this situation...
Separate cables with no shield and non optimum geometry will pick up and transmit EMC and be the worse case for signal integrity...
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What is certain is that this cable does not comply with the impedance of 75 ohms and therefore should remain short as possible .
I'm glad you find that satisfying. Since he never actually demonstrated that his DAC sounded more "natural," or for that matter, any different than other competent DACs, that sort of pseudo-technical tale-telling is lost on me, I'm afraid.
Show us the cable construction.... You cant work out characteristic impedance without that.
I do not understand why you are arguing, I am not making this up for fun, its a known fact...why do you think co-ax cable is used...
I am just presenting known facts and techniques for the best signal integrity in transmitting a signal to MAXIMISE signal integrity and MINIMISE EMC issues and thus have the best foundation for sound quality....
Why do so many have to re-invent the wheel when it comes to cables, the solutions are out there and used every day, there is a good reason why....
Its basic engineering practice.....
My experiences are mostly based on comparative listening tests without complicated theories and measurements, i'm not able to.
What is certain is that a coaxial cable has more parasitic capacitances than a braided cable . I can assure you it is audible !
I know why we use the coaxial cable , I also use the KX6A, RG 59, RG174 , RG316 etc. for vidéo component , oscilloscope probe, audio but not for short lenght spdif.These are my ears that have decided !
And how would the parasitic capacitance change things, some info here would be enlightening...
You probably like the extra distortion created then, because if there is a difference that is noticeable then it will be detrimental and not improving things.
As stated digital signals are pretty robust so can handle the torture often applied to them in some DIY situations and SPDIF can (if the correct rise time is used) handle quite a bit, but from tests and simulations the BEST signal integrity of the signal comes from a correctly set up and terminated 75ohm transmission system, with shielded co-ax cable for best immunity from EMC....
Again why would the slight difference in parasitic capacitance make any difference to the final analogue output, I am at a loss here.....
You probably like the extra distortion created then, because if there is a difference that is noticeable then it will be detrimental and not improving things.
As stated digital signals are pretty robust so can handle the torture often applied to them in some DIY situations and SPDIF can (if the correct rise time is used) handle quite a bit, but from tests and simulations the BEST signal integrity of the signal comes from a correctly set up and terminated 75ohm transmission system, with shielded co-ax cable for best immunity from EMC....
Again why would the slight difference in parasitic capacitance make any difference to the final analogue output, I am at a loss here.....
I was surprised at the good quality of a USB DAC I bought.
It was very cheap but plays really well.
Vinyl needs maintenance like keeping vinyl free from dust.
It is also prone to damage if you aren't careful.
I used to run a vinyl mobile disco and had great fun with bouncy floors and people trying to dance near the disco. With a laptop all that fun has gone.
It was very cheap but plays really well.
Vinyl needs maintenance like keeping vinyl free from dust.
It is also prone to damage if you aren't careful.
I used to run a vinyl mobile disco and had great fun with bouncy floors and people trying to dance near the disco. With a laptop all that fun has gone.
The main attraction for vinyl in the Happy Hippy Heydays of the 70's was the area an LP cover provided for the little extras in musical appreciation, the advent of CDs greatly reduced the available area, this caused many a mishap and upset when trying to do constructive origami with very thin papers🙂
my friend who has done discos for years said the best thing about doing them now is he can go to the toilet without worrying about a single ending.
my friend who has done discos for years said the best thing about doing them now is he can go to the toilet without worrying about a single ending.
A very strange cable for any purpose and a strange place to put a ferrite.
But then, S/PDIF is a very robust system and at 1 meter anything should work. Even an old lamp cord will work at 1 meter. When we get to 10 meters, then cabling gets serious.
On the other hand, some 20 years ago, the audio consultant Dick Pierce discovered a problem with S/PDIF interconnect systems. It seems that some highly rated & expensive components had such poorly designed digital output & input circuits that they would only work with some cables.
Wow, I should have thought of that, brilliant to put a ferrite in a cable for a digital signal with its fast rise times.
Edit: I must be in the same fanclub as speedskater.
They must have worked hard at designing such a bad interface... probably used audiophile layout techniques and a star ground for the digital or something just as daft....
I have seen something similar with digital in the past, the best one being a JTAG clock, when scoped it looked perfectly and worked, when the loading of the scope probe was removed it stopped working.
Even today it sometimes amazes me how far people will deviate from recommended guidelines and layout practice (not just in audio) with SMPS being top of my hit list fro silly layouts, especially when most devices come with a comprehensive guide to how you lay them out.... A Linear engineer who I have worked with said they find it very frustrating, people will ignore all the guidelines then phone up for tech. support when it doesn't work....
I have seen something similar with digital in the past, the best one being a JTAG clock, when scoped it looked perfectly and worked, when the loading of the scope probe was removed it stopped working.
Even today it sometimes amazes me how far people will deviate from recommended guidelines and layout practice (not just in audio) with SMPS being top of my hit list fro silly layouts, especially when most devices come with a comprehensive guide to how you lay them out.... A Linear engineer who I have worked with said they find it very frustrating, people will ignore all the guidelines then phone up for tech. support when it doesn't work....
Braided cable details :
Russian MGTF 0.12 mm2
Braid:
Soldering:
Ferrite:
The ferrite has no visible effect on the eye pattern and the necessary bandwidth for the signal to be transmitted. But its influence is very audible, treble are more accurate and less metalic.
Final cable (with breaded nylon sheath) ferrite at 1/4 or 1/3 cable length on dac side: (Many people have found that it was better than this cable http://store.wireworldcable.com/col...light-7-digital-audio-cable?variant=985660007) RCA are REAN NYS373 .
Russian MGTF 0.12 mm2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Braid:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Soldering:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ferrite:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The ferrite has no visible effect on the eye pattern and the necessary bandwidth for the signal to be transmitted. But its influence is very audible, treble are more accurate and less metalic.
Final cable (with breaded nylon sheath) ferrite at 1/4 or 1/3 cable length on dac side: (Many people have found that it was better than this cable http://store.wireworldcable.com/col...light-7-digital-audio-cable?variant=985660007) RCA are REAN NYS373 .
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I do not see what is there of weird to use a ferrite on a SPDIF cable . This is common on usb and firewire cables that transmit larger data flows !
A simple explanation for why digital often doesn't work, subjectively, is that the low level detail is very easily corrupted by weaknesses and less than optimum engineering somewhere in the full length of the chain - this distortion or 'noise' is particularly unpleasant in digital replay, as compared to vinyl, even though it is nominally at a very low level; and is the reason that many people find longer term listening to digital tiring, irritating or unsatisfying. The high speed circuitry used in digital can be a significant part of the mechanisms adding this "dirt" - strict attention to detail is needed to maintain isolation, for the effects to be non audible - and we all know consumer audio gear is designed with such a strict eye for detail, 😉 ...
The solution is to clean up the sloppiness of the implementation, and this will result in the sound from digital playback snapping into focus, working properly. On either side of the optimum, so to speak, the result will be blurred, flat, unpleasant, all the negatives - at dead centre of optimum the quality can be overwhelming ...
An analogy is that getting premium digital sound is an exercise in high Q engineering; LP by contrast is low Q in its nature.
The solution is to clean up the sloppiness of the implementation, and this will result in the sound from digital playback snapping into focus, working properly. On either side of the optimum, so to speak, the result will be blurred, flat, unpleasant, all the negatives - at dead centre of optimum the quality can be overwhelming ...
An analogy is that getting premium digital sound is an exercise in high Q engineering; LP by contrast is low Q in its nature.
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