jacco vermeulen said:
If a store owner showed me that in an attempt to sell a speaker, I would walk straight out and never come back !!
sdclc126 said:
Today's measurements are a useful tool to help develop a speaker, but they won't really tell you what it sounds like... hopefully measurements of the future will allow us to easily look at the dimensions not currently covered by today's standard faire and give us objective tools to more adequately evaluate speakers.
dave
Yes, two speakers rated at 50- 15K +/- 3 dB can sound vastly different. As long as that's one of the measurements used, I will continue to trust my ears as the infallible measuring tool. I'm not sure even future measurements will be able to tell you what it sounds like.
sdclc126 said:
The crossover of the Ino Audio piP, the grandfather of the Guru QM10s, looks like this:
I don't have the values of the components here, but they aren't secret. And before anyone ask, they are (atleast in the Ino piP) intended to be glued to the magnet... the value change that's added to the coil because of this is intended. Also, the wire used inside is part of the crossover. It won't work as intended if changed. (Although there won't be a huge difference.)
The Ino piP itself looks like this:
Most impressive bass I've heard from anything smaller than a couple of 11 meters horns from the basement to the listening room. The last sentence is not a joke.
Note about my pictures: Those crossovers are mount by me, they do not in any way reflect the build quality of the Guru-speakers.
Anyone else here know any basic body language?!?
Hand over mouth often indicates deceit.... Watch the video again and see what I mean ;-) I'm a bit suspicious about some of his childhood achievements... perhaps these occurred a little later in life than claimed?
Anyway, the speakers could be excellent 🙂
Hand over mouth often indicates deceit.... Watch the video again and see what I mean ;-) I'm a bit suspicious about some of his childhood achievements... perhaps these occurred a little later in life than claimed?
Anyway, the speakers could be excellent 🙂
planet10 said:
I'm specifically referring to distortion measurements of individual drivers - lower distortion = more accurate reproduction of the input signal. That DOES tell you what the speaker will sound like.
Cal Weldon said:
Refer to Post 48 also. Given the limited parameters you cite here, of course speakers will sound different. It is one of the measurements used, but not the only one, and by far not the most important one. Why would you trust your ears (only) as long as frequency response is just one measuring tool? Would you then trust other measurements only if FR was removed from the pool?
sdclc126 said:
Naaahh, You have to know the used drivers very good to have any chance of that...and still the sound will depend on crossover design
sdclc126 said:
I don't think that tells you enough to be able to judge what a speaker sounds like. It will tell you its low distortion and that its possibly accurate but accuracy and the sound in general rely on more facets than just distortion.
AJinFLA said:
I second that. Wow, most impressive discovery since Swiss cheese!
Look, may be the speakers are great, may be they are average, who knows. For all we know, he may be a methodical designer and has a good product. With all that was said above, he represents another small time commercial company, manufacturing speakers for the profit. A company like this has to create an atmosphere of exclusivity and almost a hype in a way to be able to survive. The fact that he has a following, doesn’t tell that much, after all there are Polk loving fans and people that sweat at the site of a megabuck cables. It’s not the correct forum to post this interview, because people are very technical and skeptical on the subject.
sdclc126 said:
I agree that lower distortion should equal more accurate distortion, but we have yet to figure a way to measure any but the simpliest distortion mechanisms and some of those (single number THD for instance) have been clearly shown to have absolutely no coorelation with how good a device actually is.
Further, given how bad speakers are in terms of total distortion -- maybe 10% of the way to no distortion -- one can have different mixes of different kinds of distortion and have 2 equally valid loudspeakers that sound totally different
So when faced with a fraction of the required information to objectively determine what the total distortion is, you can only fall back on the very best test instrument available -- you have to listen to it.
dave
Hi all!
Just filling in with my thougths...
I have previosly been a dedicated DIY.. Accually my last speakers was the diy-audio ref bipole.. they sounded pretty good in the right room.
I was introduced to Ino Audio (the swedish "small underground firm" he speaks of) about a year ago.. I have listen to a lot of speakers over the years, but I havn´t heard anything like his speakers.. They sound brilliant! 🙂
The absolut absens of distorsion and DEEP bass just makes you smile..
Unfortunally I cant afford the floorstanding one so I have to do with the small bookshelf.. But I can comfort me with that they sound better than many large speakers 😉
Sorry if this comes out like a big sales post.. But you know how it is when you found somthing you think is great.
(I have to make my DIY-career all about electronics instead.. Perhaps a new Amp, or mayby a decent turntable)
Just filling in with my thougths...
I have previosly been a dedicated DIY.. Accually my last speakers was the diy-audio ref bipole.. they sounded pretty good in the right room.
I was introduced to Ino Audio (the swedish "small underground firm" he speaks of) about a year ago.. I have listen to a lot of speakers over the years, but I havn´t heard anything like his speakers.. They sound brilliant! 🙂
The absolut absens of distorsion and DEEP bass just makes you smile..
Unfortunally I cant afford the floorstanding one so I have to do with the small bookshelf.. But I can comfort me with that they sound better than many large speakers 😉
Sorry if this comes out like a big sales post.. But you know how it is when you found somthing you think is great.
(I have to make my DIY-career all about electronics instead.. Perhaps a new Amp, or mayby a decent turntable)
R-Carpenter said:
Then you have to buy the Ino Audio speakers, I did 🙂 They are by far the best speakers I have heard including thoose costing ten times more 😱
From ordering i waited 18 months (1,5 years) until I got them, but as the Carlsberg advertising goes: Worth waiting for 😎
In my room the -3dB point is at 18Hz.
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planet10 said:
You really think, a 2way with a 6 or 8 inch driver can produce enough undistorted signal to reproduce music? Your "VERY large" must be something of the size of a locker 😉
planet10 said:
One cant argue with a subjectivist viewpoint. With those arguments, you could make a 2$ earplug the best sounding speaker of the world, since "you know, you cant measure it, you have to hear it ... what, you dont hear it? You must have bad ears."
Actually, our 2 way has a 4" driver and the distortion isn't bad at all. It's actually performing quite well. We're introducing in Germany very soon, so you will be able to find out how they perform for yourself. www.guruproaudio.com for more info.
I don't know if it's my work computer, but I'm having trouble finding distortion sweeps, vertical/horiz off axis (out to 60 deg), polar data, DI, SPL compression, group delay,etc, etc on the Guru site.
Perhaps the gentleman above with the 18hz bass can provide an FR at the listening position, some distortion data at say 88db at the listening position, etc, etc ?
cheers,
AJ
Perhaps the gentleman above with the 18hz bass can provide an FR at the listening position, some distortion data at say 88db at the listening position, etc, etc ?
cheers,
AJ
MaVo said:
The 2way floor model could look like a MLTL, which I have never heard
But if it resembles a Quaterwave in any it may do very well, so I wouldnt rule it out just like that
Ofcourse, bigger is even better, but sure, a 2way is always a compromise and you could just as well claim that an 8" is no good fore midrange 🙂
Genuine good big and precise soundstage is a matter of the complete design and mostly about the xo working properly...ofcourse you can cheat like with a dipole design, omnis and other tricks
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