Good tweeter for less than USD 25.00 each?

[sreten]

You really think this will be better than a TMMMM? I'm quite clueless, so everything seems equally confusing to me.

Actually, my friend Angshu has built speakers with the same midbass drivers and a different dome tweeter, and with LR4 at 2.5KHz, he's got an overall flat response. That's the basis of my trying to build something myself, but with more midbass drivers to get more SPL at low frequencies. (That was the problem with his design... he ran out of excursion. At low volumes, his speakers sounded very good.)

Then a MTMMM is the way to going with the bottom two bass
units used as the 0.5 way drivers. Unless you build the speakers
into the wall baffle step will cause midrange problems and close
to wall mounting of speakers causes uneven bass in room.

If your LR4 does not account for driver offsets its possible that
a TMMMM 2.5 way would be just as good as a MTMMM 2.5 way.

a TMMMM 2 way with no BSC is not a good idea IMO, the c/o
frequency is too high for the line array of bass / mid drivers.

🙂 sreten.

 

[sreten]

Re: Re: 801730 - Ct 62 H

I listened to it once. Too bright for me, even if I'm only 20km far from Germany 😉

Well its not bright compared to the domes, it is "tinkly", 😉 sreten.

 

[tcpip]

http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Projects/peecreek/pcrkmain.htm

Some info on the NC tweeter can be found here.

Thanks. 🙂 Actually this website was very useful in pointing out one more tweeter to me: the Dayton. 🙂

 

[coolkhoa]

tcpip,

I you need shielding, consider the Axon T1S. And I notice you haven't seriously considered any of Vifa's offerings?

 

[tcpip]

Then a MTMMM is the way to going with the bottom two bass
units used as the 0.5 way drivers.

Can you please elaborate? How do I use the two bottom units as 0.5-way drivers?

If your LR4 does not account for driver offsets its possible that
a TMMMM 2.5 way would be just as good as a MTMMM 2.5 way.

No, my LR4 does not account for driver offsets.

a TMMMM 2 way with no BSC is not a good idea IMO, the c/o
frequency is too high for the line array of bass / mid drivers.

I think I understand what you're saying... I guess you're referring to the comb filtering that will happen between the tweeter and the lower-placed bass drivers.

 

[tcpip]

I you need shielding, consider the Axon T1S. And I notice you haven't seriously considered any of Vifa's offerings?

Thanks. Actually, I've also mentally added the Vifa D27TG05-06 to the list. It's available locally, without import problems, so it's specially attractive.

 

[sreten]

In a TMM 0.5 way the extra bass driver is rolled in 1st order
at a frequency determined by the baffle width - allegedly
115/Width both in meters, but I suspect it should be a
liltle lower, around 80/W for tall thin enclosures.

🙂 sreten.

 

[Nisbeth]

Semi-OT: Peerless codes

Don't know why everyone is using those hard to remember product codes from peerless.

Because they are the official ones and the only ones used universally around the world. The different code system you mention are only used in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands as far as I know. It's the same with Vifa and Seas drivers which have different order codes in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands than in the rest of the world (for some stupid reason unknown to me . The factory codes describe the driver very accurately.

If you can read a seas factory code you can tell the size, diaphragm material, surround material, magnet size, number of voice coil windings and layers, voice coil size, phase plug and a lot more just by looking at the code.

Examples:
27TFFC: 27 mm, tweeter, fabric dome, ferrofluid, chamber
L22RN4X/P: Aluminium diaphragm, 22 cm. diameter, rubber surround, 1,5" VC diameter, 4-layer VC, extra large magnet, phase plug


Makes a lot more sense this way🙂

/U.

Sorry for the interruption, I just had to get this one off my chest😉

 

[tcpip]

OT: BSC

In a TMM 0.5 way the extra bass driver is rolled in 1st order
at a frequency determined by the baffle width - allegedly
115/Width both in meters, but I suspect it should be a
liltle lower, around 80/W for tall thin enclosures.

This means that if I have a 9" wide enclosure (0.225m), and I take the numerator to be a nice round 100 (sort of in between your two figures), I'll have to get additional bass to operate from the bottom of the frequency range up to about 450Hz? I guess if I have four midbass drivers, I can do this by keeping two midbass drivers operating flat through their range, and add a passive xo to the other two, to give them a low-pass at 450Hz? Did I understand you right?

 

[sreten]

Yes, two drivers full range (except for high pass) and
the other two rolled off 1st order at the baffle frequency.

🙂 sreten.

 

[RAW]

have you looked at these.

Very very good sound qyuality I am for sure on this.
I have used the 2 and the 6 and the new changes he has done to the tweeters make them a high quality tweeter for a very good price.

AlT2 tweeter

 

[tcpip]

Re: the BG-GR-Research tweeters

Very very good sound quality I am for sure on this.
I have used the 2 and the 6 and the new changes he has done to the tweeters make them a high quality tweeter for a very good price.

I wasn't even aware of their existence, thanks. Their prices seem higher than some of the alternatives we've discussed here, but then they claim to actually do a response curve measurement and supply matched pairs. This puts them in the same league as what North Creek claims to do.

I wonder how these drivers will compare sound wise with the Seas 27TDFC or the Audax TM025F1? Just curious... what other tweeters have you used, and how do these GR-Research ones compare with them?

 

[angel]

Regarding the baffle step at 115/W; this figure was obtained from the web, Elliot's site IIRC.

If you find it to be off, you could try using the diagonal instead:

115 / SQRT(width^2 + height^2)

I don't really think the height figures into it, though, except while listening far from the speaker.

Ideally, you drop the bafflestep-compensation from the speaker itself, and do yourself the favour of making an active room+baffle compensation unit with three parametric equalizers and a variable baffle step compensator.

Could also add eq to bridge the gap between speaker rolloff and room boundary gain.

If you biamp an 0.5 channel, you could do the compensation only for the 0.5 channel, and not worry so much about the potential loss of quality.

 

[RAW]

yes I have used the 27Tffc and the Audax not the upper end openness of the GR tweeter.
A very rich open and crisp trwwter very good by for the money.
Still think a better byuy over the NC as well.

Al

 

[sreten]

Still think a better buy over the NC as well.

Al

Are you sure ? Given that cost is a very important issue and
IMO most of the tweeters discussed here probably will be
well good enough for the intended application.

The issue here is "Bang for Buck" as the americans say,
but with the emphasis on the least Buck possible as far
as I can tell.

I'd say its between the NC's and the Dayton.


🙂 sreten.

 

[currier]

tweeter under $25

you can check out the GR Research site (www.gr~research.com). They have their GR-T1 for $30 a matched pair unshielded.

 

[RAW]

having used both I am sure the points go to GR.

Al

 

[tcpip]

Yes, two drivers full range (except for high pass) and
the other two rolled off 1st order at the baffle frequency.

I've been thinking very seriously about both your inputs, regarding BSC and comb filtering problems. I think I'll keep the BSC option open in my design, and probably try some passive line-level filtering after I get to break in and listen to the speakers. It should be quite simple to add BSC shelving filters to two of my four drivers.

I have two approaches to BSC: (i) do a shelving filter on all four midbass drivers, or (ii) do a 6dB low-pass on two of the four midbass drivers, and have an option to fine-tune the step size, i.e. control whether I put in 3dB or 4dB or 6dB gain, depending on listening tests. Which of these two approaches I take depends partly on my second question about comb filtering seriousness...

The other question I have is about this comb filtering thing. Many members here are very concerned about it, but there seems to be some very well-regarded speaker designs which seem to do nothing about it... e.g. the Straight 8. How do those work? That one's a TMMMMMMMM design. If that works, won't my TMMMM work too?

Sorry if my doubts are uber-simple, but I'm just figuring my way through all this... 🙂

 

[454Casull]

Vifa D26TG

The tests also confirmed the respectable performance of the Vifa tweeter compared to much more expensive models.

 

[tcpip]

Re-awakening this thread...

Okay guys, I need your inputs once again on this old topic. I'd started this thread to ask you about the best inexpensive tweeters, and I've got all your answers. I've resumed my diy activity after quite a big gap, and I'm now facing another problem with tweeter and xo design: I want to xo lower than I thought.

So, out of all these tweeters that you've listed, which can handle an xo point of between 1400-1800Hz, if I'm willing to go 4th order acoustic?

The tweeters you've recommended are:

• Dayton (DC28F? ES25F?)
• Peerless 811815
• North Creek D25-06
• Seas TDFC/TFFC
• GR-Research tweeters
• Audax TM025F1
• Morel MDT20/30
• One or two of the venerable Vifas

Which of these do you think can be xo'd low? I can read specs and note the Fs, but I guess actual low-xo handling ability depends on how much the driver distorts at low frequencies and reasonably high SPL. That can only be learned from your experience.