Is it just me, or is it weird no one has cryo treated Bybee Quantum Purifiers?
Not sure BS would improve.
Not sure BS would improve.
Hello Mr. Curl,
www.iconoclastcable.com shows the works of Galen Gareis. He also has patents on the subject matter.
From Galen's paper entitled "Time":
"When we add TIME based distortion to the sound delivery system our ears are quick to “hear” the deterioration in fidelity based on frequency arrival time and phase coherence more than amplitude limitations (attenuation)."
When did this happen? Was I out sick that day? I thought it was generally accepted that magnitude frequency response distortions are way more audible than phase/ freq. distortions? They sure are in my living room... 😕
"When we add TIME based distortion to the sound delivery system our ears are quick to “hear” the deterioration in fidelity based on frequency arrival time and phase coherence more than amplitude limitations (attenuation)."
When did this happen? Was I out sick that day? I thought it was generally accepted that magnitude frequency response distortions are way more audible than phase/ freq. distortions? They sure are in my living room... 😕
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I have read a bit about phase and time arrival, and much has said it is relatively unimportant and more theoretical, but FR certainly is very audible.
All that jargon about phase and frequency distortions means, as far as audio goes, it's a trivial thing and nothing to worry about.
For one, the air we live in changes constantly.
Humidity, temperature, even room reflections/absorptions, changes how the sound emitted from a speaker travels across the room, a lot more than those Galen papers describe.
And changing air quality isn't something we can really control, now is it?
Asides from humidifiers and heating/AC control, and that also changes frequently.
So there's always variables from when that sound comes from a speaker.
I certainly wouldn't obsess over such things, there are more important things in the world to dabble about.
For one, the air we live in changes constantly.
Humidity, temperature, even room reflections/absorptions, changes how the sound emitted from a speaker travels across the room, a lot more than those Galen papers describe.
And changing air quality isn't something we can really control, now is it?
Asides from humidifiers and heating/AC control, and that also changes frequently.
So there's always variables from when that sound comes from a speaker.
I certainly wouldn't obsess over such things, there are more important things in the world to dabble about.
Those Gareis papers are really interesting! I haven't read them in depth yet, but as far as I can see most relevant formulas are given. It has been shown that phase shift is frequency dependent over the audio spectrum, so can we really talk about frequency response while leaving phase shift aside?
Interestingly, I already have converted some of his design principles in my own speaker and RCA cables that I built last year thanks to COVID lockdown, based on other, much less detailed papers. It was an iterative process of trial and error, and through my experience coming from this process I can honestly tell you: yes, the difference is audible, and not only for me.
I happily dumped my Kimber 8PR for my new DIY builds, also the internal wiring of my Tannoys. Checked a neighbour's 600 Euro Oehlbach RCAs against my KISS RCAs (Keep It Short and Simple) - guess who is the winner?
And reading Gareis' paper titled 'TIME' I'm really tempted to modify my current speaker cable regarding one simple parameter (cable diameter) out of sheer curiosity, following his formulas. If I should do so, the process is about to start by keying in some formulas in Excel. We'll see ...
Have you ever watched TV show called MythBusters? They use the term plausible after some investigation via objective tests to see if the rumor / claims / theories hold water. Have you seen or read about the listening test of cryo treated audio cables?
Validity would come after some level investigation, no?
No... The metal IS changed by a cryo treatment. Its a fact. So if the metal is changed it is plausible the sound could be affected. If there was no change to the metal then it would not be plausible. But there is a change. A significant one. Go look at the cnc drill test. Its not a small margin. Its like 50% longer lasting.
wrong....
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/688/3/033087/pdf
again, not saying it makes it sound different. But it is affected..
cnc drill test is an investigation on plausibility of audible change? I thought listening test would qualify for that but I guess some people have different ideas.
Lets see. Cryo does make changes to the minute structure of some metals at least.
But nobody has every been able to measure any changes in resistance, inductance or any "micro diodes" ever and you expect there to be a change in the sound. Sounds like a religion rather than anything else.
But nobody has every been able to measure any changes in resistance, inductance or any "micro diodes" ever and you expect there to be a change in the sound. Sounds like a religion rather than anything else.
How do you know nobody has been able to measure any changes in resistance? Any links to support your claim?
It is extremely hard to prove that something does not exist.
This allows crack pot activities to go on forever.
OTOH it is easy to pull stuff from thin air, with no proof, even saying it might exist.
OMG.
This allows crack pot activities to go on forever.
OTOH it is easy to pull stuff from thin air, with no proof, even saying it might exist.
OMG.
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Annealing heat treatment of copper wire is well documented and widely used. I find the statement "nobody has been able to measure any changes in resistance" astonishing and makes very little sense. The change may not be that large to be audible but should be measurable. That is why I am very curious about the validity of that statement, perhaps somebody did measure and found no difference. Of course research into electric properties of copper wire due to cryogenic treatment is probably useless. Users of wires operated within cryogenic condition such as the LHC and ITER utilize supercoducting alloy instead of pure copper or aluminum wire.
Hello,
Well, did not find anywhere where anyone claims they have measured any change in resistance, or any other electrical factor at any level, let alone enough to be audible. Seems like you are wishing and praying, not measuring to give any evidence to support your beliefs.
Those who make claims, need to show evidence to support their claims or not be taken seriously.
Well, did not find anywhere where anyone claims they have measured any change in resistance, or any other electrical factor at any level, let alone enough to be audible. Seems like you are wishing and praying, not measuring to give any evidence to support your beliefs.
Those who make claims, need to show evidence to support their claims or not be taken seriously.
starkeyg, you made this claim. I merely ask if you know of something I have never encountered because I am interested in properties of copper, aluminum and silver.
Could mean nobody publish his measurement or nobody bother to measure. Does not validate that there is no measurable difference. But this is good enough answer for me.
This is your statement, I did not ask for evidence, but do you want to be taken seriously? Not able to measure is a claim.
BTW, I do not have any belief on characteristic change of metals due to a certain process, anything could happen including no measurable change. That is why I want to find out, research on cryo treatment is not exactly cheap.
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You are the one claiming cryo makes a difference. Provide some evidence or stop making claims you can not support.
I am not responsible for providing you with evidence or proving BS claims for you. You can claim that wires colored purple sound better, but don't expect anyone to believe it until you show some evidence to support said claim. This is not rocket science.
I am not responsible for providing you with evidence or proving BS claims for you. You can claim that wires colored purple sound better, but don't expect anyone to believe it until you show some evidence to support said claim. This is not rocket science.
Where did I ever make that claim? Never in my life.
Here is the first claim I made in this thread about effect of cryo on copper and aluminum.
In part as a response to :
Stop making false accusation, you are very rude.
Hello,
As per your post "Annealing heat treatment of copper wire is well documented and widely used. I find the statement "nobody has been able to measure any changes in resistance" astonishing and makes very little sense...."
You replied with nothing, did not even attempt to ever offer any support for your views and when challenged, demand evidence. So very sorry you are offended.
In the real world change can result is positive or negative results. Assuming cryo would help an interconnect with no evidence that it even gives any effect at all on electrical properties is just dreaming. And no, don't see any need at all for stronger cables - the only result well documented for cryo without going into superconducting temps.
As per your post "Annealing heat treatment of copper wire is well documented and widely used. I find the statement "nobody has been able to measure any changes in resistance" astonishing and makes very little sense...."
You replied with nothing, did not even attempt to ever offer any support for your views and when challenged, demand evidence. So very sorry you are offended.
In the real world change can result is positive or negative results. Assuming cryo would help an interconnect with no evidence that it even gives any effect at all on electrical properties is just dreaming. And no, don't see any need at all for stronger cables - the only result well documented for cryo without going into superconducting temps.
Some statement made little sense to me is no claim. Do you have problem with uderstanding simple english sentence? I was replying to McHambin explaining I do not need any proof nor evidence, just a clarification of the claim you made. It is you who replied with "Those who make claims, need to show evidence to support their claims or not be taken seriously." You clearly made a claim so eat your own words, do not say that it is I who demanded evidence.
I did suspect some change of electrical characteristic but never make any claim on cryoed wires, only commented that your claim was astonishing and made little sense to me because I know some cryoed steel do not experience structural change but copper does as per the paper cited by jwags818. And yes, a change can mean an increase or decrease of a parameter, and I repeat, I suspect but never made any claim whether a wire has an increase or a decrease in resistance, certainly did not mention anything about interconnect either. What kind of proof do you expect me to give when I find your statement surprising and made little sense to me?
I did suspect some change of electrical characteristic but never make any claim on cryoed wires, only commented that your claim was astonishing and made little sense to me because I know some cryoed steel do not experience structural change but copper does as per the paper cited by jwags818. And yes, a change can mean an increase or decrease of a parameter, and I repeat, I suspect but never made any claim whether a wire has an increase or a decrease in resistance, certainly did not mention anything about interconnect either. What kind of proof do you expect me to give when I find your statement surprising and made little sense to me?
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