This is no climax experiment for me, this is 'old hat' and long confirmed by myself and others.
The Treatment 2 is an experiment that I have been meaning to do for a long while, and the result (deleterious) is as I expected.
Treatment 2 experiments will be carried out in further scenarios to confirm this initial finding.
Dan.
If you could give an exact time range in minutes and seconds from the start of the file that would be helpful. Such as, "1:03 to 1:07"
On something as trivial as audio that's doubtful. The claims are not something missed but invalidation of the second law.
The Phd I spoke to in person and at length is intensely interested in my descriptions of my findings, today hopefully I can demonstrate a range of experiments and go from there.
Mark, perhaps you should try using Foobar as player software in order to properly duplicate my experiments.
Dan.
Jeeze Mark you are getting as bad as Dan, you are hearing "differences" between plays of the same track!
Some people really are predisposed to hear differences if they think there is even a chance that there could be one. This has been shown many times, especially among, shall we say "enthusiastic", audiophiles. You can flip a switch that is not connected to anything, and not only will they perceive a difference in the sound, they will describe the sonic differences in exquisite detail (always the same vocabulary, though). Put several of them in the same room and they will quickly converge on the same preference and descriptive details, and they will also all claim to have arrived at these conclusions independently.
I have no doubt that if Max was here I would soon be hearing differences among these identical files, and we would both believe that I did so without coaching. We would both be wrong.
I will continue to audition these files (I can't find my good IEMs and my over-ear AKGs are at the office) but so far I have perceived no differences. Diffmaker agrees with me. The old "fc /b" does as well, I have no doubt these files are bit-identical, and that's why they sound identical.
I like how Max starts by saying these files sound dramatically different, anyone hears the difference even with cheap ear buds or mid-fi audio gear, but as soon as someone doesn't hear a difference they don't know how to listen, or what to listen for, or their system isn't good enough, or they have cloth ears, or the magic fell off the files in transit. Classic.
The second law argument hinges on no external energy source present.....I have not said that there is no external energy source.
Dan.
I have stated that the differences are subtle on first inspection.
With familiarity and recognition these differences are quite significant and important imho.
If you state that you cannot hear any differences that is a test result, be it the files are reproduced exactly the same, or you require hearing training and coaching on what to listen for or whatever...either way I am not dissuaded.
Dan.
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No, there is an equivalence of energy and information. The exact set of "bits" representing two sets of information would require energy from nothing. The demon mentioned is our old buddy.
No, I did't say that. I am saying someone predisposed to do so might be more likely to be fooled by that particular source material.
I arrived at that opinion by intentionally allowing myself to listen in very loose and suggestible way. As though I really wanted to hear a difference. I wanted to see if the wanting combined with the particular source material interacted in a way that might favor Dan's selection of that music. I tend to think it could be. That's all.
Also, please, take it easy. I'm trying to give Dan a fair chance without constant criticism and ridicule. Let's try something different this time and see how it goes. We already know what usually happens.
I am taking it very easy. This is a thread about funny snake oil theories, and I am enjoying it.
....or energy from the 'aether'.
What causes magnets to be 'permanent'......the 'explanation' is that electron orbits 'line up' causing constructive addition of forces......why do these orbits not revert to 'chaos' instantly ?.
Dan.
Why don't you try Reaper? You can download it for a free 60 day trial. After that all there is is a nag screen. They have been very nice about not being pushy with occasional users. For people who have the money there is a low cost non-professional license for around $60. The license is good for two major releases of Reaper, and is an extremely good deal if you find it useful.
Reaper and Foobar are probably both be fine. However, Reaper allows instant switching and fine grain looping, features you might find very illuminating and useful for your own purposes.
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You have already tainted this exercise by providing identification of the files beforehand.
Hearing training and coaching don't jive with the claims of random people partying at a concert and clerks at health-food stores immediately hearing the difference. In any case the listening has to be blind with controls and no coaching/hinting during the process.
I would hope your physicist buddy can help you there. There is no aether BTW (it doesn't even get a spell check entry).
It takes energy in the form of heat, it's called the Curie temperature. You can take that super magnet that just lifted 100lb and render it useless.
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I'm out -- for the reasons Mark alluded to, the way I see this going is hurt people and incendiary language. Any real differences in playback between bit-identical files held in various places is going to have to come from some sort of unexpected implementation issue on the local hardware, and nigh impossible to diagnose from afar.
I'm confused, is this really the right place, or exactly the right place?
For one, I'm determined to have fun, even if it kills me, but does that mean I'm too open to suggestion due to the name of this thread?
Why can't we just see what happens after coaching? Maybe nothing.
Sometimes an experiment can be about observing the effects of something with and without coaching. It depends.
Besides, I would like to see how Dan has been coaching his local listeners. It might be helpful to resolving the mystery. Who knows?
Yeah, I know. Somewhere along the line I seem to have lost my sense of humor for laughing at other people's stupidity. Sorry.
Maybe Festinger is to blame:
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~schaller/528Readings/Festinger1954.pdf
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