Different filters clipped onto the one USB cable (Micro-USB>USB-A) used to transfer the three copies to Dropbox.
Dan.
Yes, there is more to it than that but your post does illustrate the necessity of being aware of listening modes.
I am sure you are well aware when live mixing or studio mixdown it is all to easy to get focused in finessing a particular channel/mic and when pulling back to hear the 'big picture' the moves have been deleterious to the overall product.
The skilled live or mastering engineer can switch such modes effortlessly and accurately.
Dan.
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Yes, the demo/audition just now with my housemate was with files (zip file) that I downloaded from Dropbox earlier today, same as you.
I do not in fact have an archive/original copy of the Treatment 2 wav file....the Treatment 2 file was a single event copy/transfer of the phone stored Standard folder file directly to the Dropbox Treatment 2 folder using USB cable fitted with new (alternative) filters.
Dan.
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Dan, Why don't you have your housemate play back the files for you without you looking, or vice versa? And rather than rating them just say which one is which, and see how many you get right. There should not be verbal or visual contact between you during the test. Just tap on the table when you want a something played and let you mate choose it at the time. Each one of you write down what is it is, and compare lists later. Something like that, make it as good as you can.
The problem otherwise with a once through on each file is you tend to take them in order and listening impressions may vary with order. Also, if looking at each other while talking about impressions, humans read each others little facial expressions and vocal inflections without conscious effort. It's a form of communication that can sway what is said. Best to eliminate it as a variable.
Part of what is bothering me at this point is your choice of music. I haven't listened carefully yet, only tried it briefly on the laptop. But, my impression is that the dynamics and sparsity of the mix leads to confusion or some scrambling of auditory memory. I found my auditory memory being disrupted with each loud snare hit, depending on how I listened. My suspicion is that it the characteristics of the music and recording that make it very prone to illusions for some kinds of listening. And, that's just within one version in one folder at different times. Easy to let that make someone think the files sound different.
The problem otherwise with a once through on each file is you tend to take them in order and listening impressions may vary with order. Also, if looking at each other while talking about impressions, humans read each others little facial expressions and vocal inflections without conscious effort. It's a form of communication that can sway what is said. Best to eliminate it as a variable.
Part of what is bothering me at this point is your choice of music. I haven't listened carefully yet, only tried it briefly on the laptop. But, my impression is that the dynamics and sparsity of the mix leads to confusion or some scrambling of auditory memory. I found my auditory memory being disrupted with each loud snare hit, depending on how I listened. My suspicion is that it the characteristics of the music and recording that make it very prone to illusions for some kinds of listening. And, that's just within one version in one folder at different times. Easy to let that make someone think the files sound different.
Yes, as you describe is the plan with me as the subject and I reckon I should be able to identify each file.....I know the sounds and the treatments so I should be able to nominate correctly.
Likely tomorrow night I will see how I go with a blind test.
The test this afternoon with my housemate was with him as blind subject and him calling 'next track'.
My housemate's one minute run throughs ordering was according to how he felt about each track...ie he was relaxed and pulling back, listening to the 'big picture' and not for details in this case.
His descriptions/summations at the end of the test were 'interesting/exciting', 'ho hum/whatever', and 'don't like it' (not in that order) with me listening with 'poker face' so as not to give visual/facial feedback.
You can loop pb and zone in on snare, bass, guitar, vocals etc notes individually and get solid findings of the three files, or pull back and listen to the whole mix in terms of clarity, groove, instantaneous and overall dynamics, perceived loudness etc..... or just plain enjoyment/involvement factor.
I perhaps have an advantage in that I know intimately the spoken voice, unaided singing voice, and reinforced voice of the artist.
To my ear, one of the files is much closer to the vocal truth in regards tonality and nuance than the others.
Dan.
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There are ways to force loading only the data from the files into contiguous internal memory and playing from there. You could live play the difference too but I don't think the hidden information survives conventional addition or subtraction.
Yes. I was trying to make the point to Dan that using most data storage systems there is no assurance that a file physically persists as is, even though the data, and the name and displayed location remain unchanged.
Perhaps try unconventional addition or subtraction? Maybe use heat to make the hidden information visible? Or a solvent of some kind.........
None of which is relevant to playback, where the file contents are first written to a buffer of contiguous memory, which can be accessed at very high bit rate ( much higher than needed for audio).
So Dan, since these files are so obviously different sounding to you, suppose the following:
I copy the files to files called Max1, Max2, Max3, Max4, Max5. These will be copies of some or all of the 3 files you uploaded. Obviously at least one of your files will be present more than once. Maybe all 5 will be copies of the same file, maybe 2-2-1, maybe 1-3-1, etc. Will you be able to tell me which of Max1-5 corresponds to Standard, Treated1, Treated2?
I copy the files to files called Max1, Max2, Max3, Max4, Max5. These will be copies of some or all of the 3 files you uploaded. Obviously at least one of your files will be present more than once. Maybe all 5 will be copies of the same file, maybe 2-2-1, maybe 1-3-1, etc. Will you be able to tell me which of Max1-5 corresponds to Standard, Treated1, Treated2?
Just opened Dan's test files in Reaper. Below is an image showing the three files at the individual sample level, Standard, Treated 1, and Treated 2.
At the top of each file track is the left channel, just below that the right. As can be seen from the image, the tracks are quite identical from a visual perspective at this vertical magnification.
At the top of each file track is the left channel, just below that the right. As can be seen from the image, the tracks are quite identical from a visual perspective at this vertical magnification.
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nezbleu, why do I find your avatar slightly erotic? Is there something wrong with me?
Yes. You are being aroused by a cheap, $2 jack.
I'm having trouble with a random 1 24bit LSB difference. It can't matter but would snafu a logical compare of the files. I don't have the resources here to track down the issue.
Possibly, dunno, maybe worth the experiment but with at least one copy of each source file.
Dan.
I don't understand what you mean there.
I expect/encourage somebody to run the files through a binary file checker/comparator.
Dan.
Not sure how you are getting that. Using the compare plugin for Notepad++, a full bitwise search of the files including the headers results in the message, "Files Are The Same."
EDIT: Also, I listened to the files using Reaper with 1-button instant source switching. No audible difference found.
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I realise the above.
There is also the subject of the fine details of operation of flash memory.
I have put the files up as an experiment in confirmation of the very curious findings here.
I discovered this effect by accident, ie I didn't go looking for it.
I noticed the effect when listening 'in the background' to some files that I had transferred to thumb drive for convenience at the time.
It is noteworthy that file differences have been noted and described by quite a number of test subjects using quite a number of audio systems using several thumb drives and at least two phones used as playback devices.
I do not have the answers yet, but there are other experimental results that point to 'something' deeper encoded into signals that changes/controls behavior of audio and video playback systems.
Other experiments show change in behaviour of light sources of various kinds....I need to redo experiments with pocket lasers, tomorrow I will get a couple.
Other experiments show change in behaviour of radio systems, both transmission and reception devices.
Another observation is change in physical properties of red wine and change in taste of red wine, as assayed and reported on by an accredited wine judge.
Is there something 'missed' or written out of modern standard physics ?....seemingly so by the reaction and conversation with a local Physics Phd, whom I will pay a visit today.
When there are enough honest and unbiased listening results, positive or negative, I will discuss what to listen for, and where the recordings differences are most apparent.
With the artists permission I may post other files from the same album in the near future.
Dan.
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