Funniest snake oil theories

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I have one of these devices installed in my OPPO 105, and it did an amazing improvement, but not directly comparable as my phono reproduction that is similar to Jack's.
Did you try a control to check whether it was Jack's device that made the change or any similar device would make the same change? How did you control out your own expectation bias?
I still think you are having a laugh. :)
 
Next thing in Hi-End..

There's and "old wives tale" that you should never put anything smaller than your elbow in your ear

Don't worry, let me introduce Mr Earbuddy, he's my houskeep...err I mean earkeeper, I put him at work when heading for the bed!
He's a bit shy but gentle, and.. oh did I mention he's house-trained too!

ps. John I can offer you a discount on these buddies, your OPPO 105 for one of these and if you decide within 24h I will give you one extra for free, your bybees will sound better than ever before!
 

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Well Dan, since we can't avoid these people, it might be next best to ignore them. For you and me: I did speak to Jack Bybee in detail this week about improving digital reproduction. Jack has recently purchased an OPPO 205, and he and an engineering colleague of mine modified it as much as they could.
Jack told me that initially, he was disappointed in the sound of the 205, but as he added several of his quantum tweaks, it got better and better, finally giving sound comparable to the Vendetta Research phono playback that he uses as well. He found that the biggest change was adding more of his new wooden cased devices that he mounts on the inside cover of the OPPO. I have one of these devices installed in my OPPO 105, and it did an amazing improvement, but not directly comparable as my phono reproduction that is similar to Jack's.
While this approach is actually cheaper than buying even more exotic digital hardware, that might actually be better than the stock OPPO, I am concerned that this is leading to not putting the most effort into the actual engineering of the circuitry, and instead just adding a 'fix' for improving the effective sound quality. I suspect that you too are faced with the same dilemma. If your 'fix' seems to improve things markedly, why bother for better engineering of the primary devices? However, I think this is short-sighted and we have to continue with improving both methods of sonic improvement to the best of our abilities. I have seen this in the past, as well, with line cords, etc, making such an improvement that time and money got more invested in the cables, and the primary electronics was left about the same, and I feel this can inhibit optimum improvement of audio reproduction.

I am curious, generally there is a line of technical reasoning when taking action of change from an engineering point of view. Do you know the sequence of the though process leading to each tweak? Or is it random?
 
I don't know of any 'process', it is usually trying things and listening for each change. I have found this really worked for me with high speed diodes rather than typical rectifier diodes, better film caps, etc.

Normally what I try and do is if I can hear a good enough difference, I will try to do measurements to using different test signals to figure out what makes sense by looking at the response. This is one way I discovered a cap manufacturer was using a different material for a cap of same specs, and proved it. Most of the time, it is possible to find a difference in measurement using not so common methods.
 
I much listen to spoken word radio...AM or FM or streaming.
Spoken word is a very telling source signal, and any minute changes in the timbre at the replay end are abundantly apparent.
Dynamic behaviors and dynamics behaviors are in large part what is described as timbre.

No, timbre is defined as "tone", and is directly related to harmonic structure and frequency response. It is not a dynamic quality.

Timbre is an interesting subject in itself, enough so that the English HiFi press came up with the acronym PRaT - "Pace Rythm and Timing".

No, those terms are not at all related.

On first inspection this might seem ... a 'new' marketing term.

By no means new, but only a marketing term.
 
Jack told me that initially, he was disappointed in the sound of the 205, but as he added several of his quantum tweaks, it got better and better, finally giving sound comparable to the Vendetta Research phono playback that he uses as well. He found that the biggest change was adding more of his new wooden cased devices that he mounts on the inside cover of the OPPO. I have one of these devices installed in my OPPO 105, and it did an amazing improvement, but not directly comparable as my phono reproduction that is similar to Jack's.

Glad to see the discussion get back to the the original topic.
 
Well Dan, since we can't avoid these people, it might be next best to ignore them.
Yes, I have no trouble ignoring the peanut gallery amateur comedians.

For you and me: I did speak to Jack Bybee in detail this week about improving digital reproduction. Jack has recently purchased an OPPO 205, and he and an engineering colleague of mine modified it as much as they could. Jack told me that initially, he was disappointed in the sound of the 205, but as he added several of his quantum tweaks, it got better and better, finally giving sound comparable to the Vendetta Research phono playback that he uses as well. He found that the biggest change was adding more of his new wooden cased devices that he mounts on the inside cover of the OPPO. I have one of these devices installed in my OPPO 105, and it did an amazing improvement, but not directly comparable as my phono reproduction that is similar to Jack's.
I gather this includes Bybee Music Rails regulators and BQP's in addition to the iQSE wooden devices.
Yes digital typically sounds wrong, but not only for the reasons generally attributed.
All that abrupt and time varying routing and switching of energy 'packets' sets up chaotic behaviors that propagate throughout every material in the system.
The cool part is that this noise can be largely 'undone' by introducing 'ordering'.

While this approach is actually cheaper than buying even more exotic digital hardware, that might actually be better than the stock OPPO, I am concerned that this is leading to not putting the most effort into the actual engineering of the circuitry, and instead just adding a 'fix' for improving the effective sound quality.
There are large problems with layout.
When ones belief system (backed by typical measurements) precludes considerations such as directions of mutual couplings then layout becomes 'random', including non identical channels.
Next engineering step is properly understanding how materials and circuit topology interact on energy throughput.....non recursive stages (Non GFB) and local FB stages modify energy throughput in fundamentally different ways to GFB stages.
The final step is dictating the fine behavior of these circuit types by application of 'filtering' at the appropriate energy 'handover' points.....works for me.
Truly good and proper audio design requires a 'holistic' understanding and viewpoint, and not just that from in front of a CAD design screen.

I suspect that you too are faced with the same dilemma. If your 'fix' seems to improve things markedly, why bother for better engineering of the primary devices? However, I think this is short-sighted and we have to continue with improving both methods of sonic improvement to the best of our abilities.
My direction for now is indeed in fixing existing systems...polishing turds.
Typical consumer systems are let's face it pretty good on the spec sheet, or at least good enough according to the standard measurements.
Performance and sound of mainstream audio gear is quite uniform nowadays, and rather better than older gear sold as hifi.....it's pretty hard to find a modern AV receiver that sounds really 'bad'.
However the materials and layouts cause all kinds of mischief that manifests as boring or fundamentally irritating sound and this is what the public gets.
My approach is that by filtering existing energy inputs and outputs such gear can perfectly readily be made fun again, and economical such that it is possible to become a 'standard' commodity retrofit item.

Future plans is to apply this knowledge OEM into stage backline, sound reinforcement systems and recording systems.
This will enable fundamentally improved live music and recordings (both already done and well proven).
These recordings in turn modify the behavior of playback systems and for the better.
The full extent of the benefits of this approach are realised when the playback system is 'treated' also (also done and well proven).
Curiously this 'whole signal chain' treatment sets up a 'coherence' such that the record/playback system essentially disappears, and realistic and always pleasing '3D holographic' sound results.

I regard this 'filtering' knowledge as a gateway to understanding and better engineering and implementation of electronic and electric systems in general, not just audio.

I have seen this in the past, as well, with line cords, etc, making such an improvement that time and money got more invested in the cables, and the primary electronics was left about the same, and I feel this can inhibit optimum improvement of audio reproduction.
Yes, undoubtedly.
This cable swapping does certainly affect/effect systems but I view it as an unnecessarily expensive method of attempting to 'tune out' sonic faults.
The power cable for instance is the energy source for a system and the materials included will 'filter' this energy supply not unlike BQP.
Boutique cable manufacturers make all kinds of claims regarding cable conductors, insulators and geometry etc, but I suspect most are clueless about what is really going on, and the result is an expensive crap shoot with variable results.

The real results will come when recognition is given of the deep fundamental goings on regarding energy transmission and transduction and interactions....you, Jack and I are working on it.

There is so much more I could say about other than audio applications but not here, this is the most fun that anybody could have, seriously.

Dan.
 
Dan, I don't have any trouble returning the compliment by ignoring you as well, be my guest. Even my smallest peanut outsizes your largest coconut, so to speak. However, with John, it is more difficult. He is a fine electronic engineer who has done some innovative stuff, plus he has had a modicum of formal education too. It is much more difficult to see a man of that stature go astray.
 
Max Headroom said:
Timbre is an interesting subject in itself, enough so that the English HiFi press came up with the acronym PRaT - "Pace Rythm and Timing".
On first inspection this might seem an April's fool's day pisstake or a 'new' marketing term.
I thought "PRaT" was a description of the people who believe in "PRaT".

Digging deeper, the term has merit and is attempting to describe differences between systems that are not readily attributable to FR and distortions.
Multiple stage and individual component time dependent, amplitude dependent and noise dependent behaviors constructively/multiplicitive and destructively/damping interact and set up overall system dynamic behaviors.

This process can set up resonances with time and signal driven variable attack, sustain and decay behaviors which translates to toe tapping realism, excitement, irritation....or boredom, all described as PRaT.

Excess noise is a big part of what influences timbre and PRaT, the trick is predictably controlling and thereby subjectively reducing the spectrum/dynamics of the system intrinsic excess noise.
There may be a tiny amount of merit in talking this way about transducers, but such behaviour from electronics is rather unlikely. In fact, it would be hard to deliberately engineer a circuit to exhibit these behaviours so accidentally making a circuit which somehow delays or advances the signal (which is what you are claiming) can be dismissed as creative imagination.

john curl said:
Well Dan, since we can't avoid these people, it might be next best to ignore them.
This thread was started so we could laugh at snake oil. A clue is in the thread title. Pitching up in such a thread is a rather peculiar way of avoiding or ignoring people like us. You are of course most welcome here, but please don't be offended when we laugh.
 
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