Because this makes cable comparisons impossible.
I suppose they could ab cryo treated and non cryo treated heads...
I suppose they could ab cryo treated and non cryo treated heads...
And I'm sure Oliver Stone has perfect audio memory so that he remembers exactly how it should sound 16 years later sitting in a viewing room...
Absolutely!....Within a tenth of a db, just like audiophiles in a non-blind audio comparison!!
Golden ears, mud head.
I've had to stop responding to a friend who has become an audiophile.
He endlessly pontificates on incompetent circuit design, and constantly espouses discreet components as necessarily sounding superior to op amps. He can't describe the improvements, only angrily barking about simpler circuits. Ignores signal path length, improvements in the last several years in op amps, and their superior tight production tolerances, and now goes on and on, about how Schitt Audio, AudioNote, MSB, Border Patrol, Benchmark, etc. Are all incompetent designs. To test his expertise in circuit design, I asked him if he'd mind checking a Little Bear 12AX7 phono preamp, and see if he could spot any ground loops.
He said such things are beyond him.
But he's an expert on professionals' DAC designs, and whether or not they would sound natural.
I point out all modern DACs measure to better frequency amplitudes (+-) than we can hear in a listening room.
He responds it doesn't matter if his directstream dac measures the same +- 0.1 or 0.2 db 20-20,000 hertz.
All other DACs are wrong, and hurt his ears.
He then pisses me off by telling me his new DAC makes his Markaudio 12PW speakers sound like electrostats, sourced with LPs.
I own a pair of 12PWs, and 12Ps, and neither resolves as well as my 'stat/Scanspeak hybrids.
I've heard a Meitner DAC, which he says sounds about the same as his DAC , and it does not sound like vinyl played on any combination of my 3 turntables, 6 cartridges, and 3 phonostages.
Despite telling me his DAC sounds like vinyl, he doesn't own a record player. He does buy records, based on their covers, and hangs them on his walls.
He can't tell me if his DAC sounds like a Grado, Denon, Nagaoka, Ortofon,Shure, or an Audio Technica cartridge, mc, mm, moving iron, or mono cartridge. He's unable to say if it sounds like a tube , solid state vintage or new stage.
He can say it sounds like vinyl though.
I am so tired of expert golden ears with zero empirical observation to back up their parroted remarks. After admitting he doesn't know what a ground loop in my Little Bear preamp would look like, he mentioned it was a shame it doesn't use 12AU7 tubes, because it would sound better. This without him hearing it at all.
But if he can hear a DAC producing frequency variations of +/- 0.2db in music, I am convinced Oliver Stone could tell if the rear channels were loud enough to make him feel immersed in the movie.
I've had to stop responding to a friend who has become an audiophile.
He endlessly pontificates on incompetent circuit design, and constantly espouses discreet components as necessarily sounding superior to op amps. He can't describe the improvements, only angrily barking about simpler circuits. Ignores signal path length, improvements in the last several years in op amps, and their superior tight production tolerances, and now goes on and on, about how Schitt Audio, AudioNote, MSB, Border Patrol, Benchmark, etc. Are all incompetent designs. To test his expertise in circuit design, I asked him if he'd mind checking a Little Bear 12AX7 phono preamp, and see if he could spot any ground loops.
He said such things are beyond him.
But he's an expert on professionals' DAC designs, and whether or not they would sound natural.
I point out all modern DACs measure to better frequency amplitudes (+-) than we can hear in a listening room.
He responds it doesn't matter if his directstream dac measures the same +- 0.1 or 0.2 db 20-20,000 hertz.
All other DACs are wrong, and hurt his ears.
He then pisses me off by telling me his new DAC makes his Markaudio 12PW speakers sound like electrostats, sourced with LPs.
I own a pair of 12PWs, and 12Ps, and neither resolves as well as my 'stat/Scanspeak hybrids.
I've heard a Meitner DAC, which he says sounds about the same as his DAC , and it does not sound like vinyl played on any combination of my 3 turntables, 6 cartridges, and 3 phonostages.
Despite telling me his DAC sounds like vinyl, he doesn't own a record player. He does buy records, based on their covers, and hangs them on his walls.
He can't tell me if his DAC sounds like a Grado, Denon, Nagaoka, Ortofon,Shure, or an Audio Technica cartridge, mc, mm, moving iron, or mono cartridge. He's unable to say if it sounds like a tube , solid state vintage or new stage.
He can say it sounds like vinyl though.
I am so tired of expert golden ears with zero empirical observation to back up their parroted remarks. After admitting he doesn't know what a ground loop in my Little Bear preamp would look like, he mentioned it was a shame it doesn't use 12AU7 tubes, because it would sound better. This without him hearing it at all.
But if he can hear a DAC producing frequency variations of +/- 0.2db in music, I am convinced Oliver Stone could tell if the rear channels were loud enough to make him feel immersed in the movie.
I could be totally insane, delusional and misguided (not unlikely) but I find myself listening to mostly albums these days and preferring it.
What that preference is due to is anyone's guess to be honest.
-Availability of rarer recordings
-Maybe mastering
-maybe a refusal to adopt an easier way to do just about anything
-Maybe masochism
-Maybe it sounds closer to my memory of how it "should" sound
- Maybe I'd just rather not keep adopting new formats every few years
The possibilities are endless and I refuse to debate on the subject.
What I can tell you is it's satisfying to me and I've taken the time to setup playback in the most technically informed manner I'm capable of so it's certainly not pitiful.
I also listen to digital music and enjoy that too. But usually it's garbage rips of ethnographic recordings which frankly were not recorded well to begin with. It's more a way to "locate something available in vinyl I'm interested in".
So, the music I want takes precedence over the quality of recording in this regard. This is a core difference between myself and many audio "people" from what I've gathered.
Technical discourse can't rectify personal psychology and as you have displayed this is sometimes the most operative determining factor of preference- real or imagined.
If you have extremely diverse or specific historical musical taste it can be very trying to fully accept digital simply on those grounds.
"Better" is played out. I don't have time for that.
Better for my mental condition at this time might be more fitting. Or, better technically in these parameters.
I'll leave the bickering like 14 year old girls to the blowtorch thread (sorry, couldn't resist)
Natural is another one of those words that's quite relative.
Me? I just want to enjoy myself and if possible not be a total idiot.
I do that by generally attempting to listen to those:
1. With a hard science background
2. Who have nothing to sell me.
3. Who are emotionally balanced (more or less)
That's been vastly more helpful than any other avenue I've tried.
Also a big help in that department is to not engage with the type of person you described.
What that preference is due to is anyone's guess to be honest.
-Availability of rarer recordings
-Maybe mastering
-maybe a refusal to adopt an easier way to do just about anything
-Maybe masochism
-Maybe it sounds closer to my memory of how it "should" sound
- Maybe I'd just rather not keep adopting new formats every few years
The possibilities are endless and I refuse to debate on the subject.
What I can tell you is it's satisfying to me and I've taken the time to setup playback in the most technically informed manner I'm capable of so it's certainly not pitiful.
I also listen to digital music and enjoy that too. But usually it's garbage rips of ethnographic recordings which frankly were not recorded well to begin with. It's more a way to "locate something available in vinyl I'm interested in".
So, the music I want takes precedence over the quality of recording in this regard. This is a core difference between myself and many audio "people" from what I've gathered.
Technical discourse can't rectify personal psychology and as you have displayed this is sometimes the most operative determining factor of preference- real or imagined.
If you have extremely diverse or specific historical musical taste it can be very trying to fully accept digital simply on those grounds.
"Better" is played out. I don't have time for that.
Better for my mental condition at this time might be more fitting. Or, better technically in these parameters.
I'll leave the bickering like 14 year old girls to the blowtorch thread (sorry, couldn't resist)
Natural is another one of those words that's quite relative.
Me? I just want to enjoy myself and if possible not be a total idiot.
I do that by generally attempting to listen to those:
1. With a hard science background
2. Who have nothing to sell me.
3. Who are emotionally balanced (more or less)
That's been vastly more helpful than any other avenue I've tried.
Also a big help in that department is to not engage with the type of person you described.
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That's eery that I was just staring at that album cover.
Disco 3000 (1978) Sun Ra FULL ALBUM - YouTube
Disco 3000 (1978) Sun Ra FULL ALBUM - YouTube
Once an item works as planned most of us here use their kit to listen to music, audiophiles use music to listen to their kit.
That is the difference in a nutshell.
Interesting idea, well put. I suspect you are right. I sometimes listen to music to hear how good it sounds on my mostly DIY system. And while it does sound good to my ears, I occasionally forget to listen to music I like instead of strictly that which is well recorded.
One of best sentences here in DIYA! (one more vote for a like...)
Sometimes is fun to listen only for effects (like Carlp said). Is fun knowing about distortion, noise, and other technical "effects/artifacts". Is very educative, too. The question: is a sin to use music for that? I don't think so. At least I can assume this condition and not scream to everyone "is only about music" 😉 What about the non-techinical? Is a sin to perceive differences, also? Of course most times is a placebo effect, but (for example) since my childhood I perceive differences about systems and at this time I don't know about electronics ie. I have the perception (=hearing plus attention) but not the explanation (but I always wanted to know electronics). Now I can explain various things I've listened in my life, although I need to learn much yet...
On other side...
For me this don't detract from listening to music: I also can listen only for music 😀 but most times the two things occurs at same time. To illustrating this, a simple example: "argh, that very worn vinyl, with probably 70% IMD and very limited response and this player is badly misaligned, but what a artistic performance" etc etc... I have some difficult to find musics with a MP3 64kbps horrible format, for another example
So I can assure the 2 things can occur harmoniously. But not everyone works that manner, for sure...
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Everyone should have a copy of 'The sheffield track record' as it is a constant reminder not to buy audiophile spectacular recordings!
Possibly connected in a vague way as regards all round enjoyment and barriers to.....
A few years ago I started an "Art for Beginners" course. It was very enjoyable and literally an eye opener in the way it made me really look at things in the kind of detail I'd never done before. I've always liked being outdoors and walking and just appreciating the natural world, I'm lucky enough to live in a beautiful area. I did a bit of drawing/painting whilst out and about and for a while found it pleasurable until the looking at things in terms of how I could reproduce or capture them was all I was doing. I packed it in, I wasn't able to just BE where I wanted to be.
There was a series about young artists on TV a while back, it was a bit of a contrived competition to win a scholarship, so they had to produce a piece of work (obviously). There was one lad who was so fascinated by almost everything he saw he didn't want to waste time doing anything! He was a pain in the ars, but I sort of felt like I knew what he meant. Why waste time listening to music critically when you can immerse yourself in it. Music is personal, even if the composer had a particular idea he wanted to convey through his/her music I don't want to hear about it expressed in words, how it speaks to me is mine and nobody elses.
A few years ago I started an "Art for Beginners" course. It was very enjoyable and literally an eye opener in the way it made me really look at things in the kind of detail I'd never done before. I've always liked being outdoors and walking and just appreciating the natural world, I'm lucky enough to live in a beautiful area. I did a bit of drawing/painting whilst out and about and for a while found it pleasurable until the looking at things in terms of how I could reproduce or capture them was all I was doing. I packed it in, I wasn't able to just BE where I wanted to be.
There was a series about young artists on TV a while back, it was a bit of a contrived competition to win a scholarship, so they had to produce a piece of work (obviously). There was one lad who was so fascinated by almost everything he saw he didn't want to waste time doing anything! He was a pain in the ars, but I sort of felt like I knew what he meant. Why waste time listening to music critically when you can immerse yourself in it. Music is personal, even if the composer had a particular idea he wanted to convey through his/her music I don't want to hear about it expressed in words, how it speaks to me is mine and nobody elses.
Forget cryoing your outlets, let's PSI your speakers!
Crushing Hi-fi Speakers and SANDSTORM with Hydraulic Press, feat. Darude - YouTube
Crushing Hi-fi Speakers and SANDSTORM with Hydraulic Press, feat. Darude - YouTube
I miss destroying things at work.
I once had a collection of old 12" & 15" woofers that were pulled from various enclosures for things like rotten foam etc. I'd refoamed some, but didn't need them all, so gave the rest (about a dozen) a proper sending off. Laid them out on the concrete floor, wired them up in series-parallel and plugged the whole thing into an AC outlet. The noise was mostly expected, though it's hard to fully prepare for a sound like that. What I hadn't predicted was the miniature snowstorm in the shop, as the SPL shook the dust from the steel roof trusses above!
I used to work with a gal who was my partner in crime for such escapades. Hell, she thought up half the crazy sh*t we did. These days I work alone, and my heart just isn't in it anymore.
I once had a collection of old 12" & 15" woofers that were pulled from various enclosures for things like rotten foam etc. I'd refoamed some, but didn't need them all, so gave the rest (about a dozen) a proper sending off. Laid them out on the concrete floor, wired them up in series-parallel and plugged the whole thing into an AC outlet. The noise was mostly expected, though it's hard to fully prepare for a sound like that. What I hadn't predicted was the miniature snowstorm in the shop, as the SPL shook the dust from the steel roof trusses above!
I used to work with a gal who was my partner in crime for such escapades. Hell, she thought up half the crazy sh*t we did. These days I work alone, and my heart just isn't in it anymore.
That takes me back... Years ago we used to do things like push the wires of some big electrolytics into the ac sockets on a bench - the power being off as everyone else had gone home... Half asleep test engineer comes in in the morning, sipping coffee... Flicks the bench isolator on.... boom boom boom! Coffee down his trousers at the very least....
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