Yes, as soon as I have some time. I only have one driver so just one unit. We will see if it hits the 45Hz mark and how much distortion that is. I think it might be fine for lower SPL. Being wall mounted eliminates baffle step losses.
One thing puzzles me: the driver is placed exactly in the center, how comes the simulation does not show any comb filter effect?
The sim was mostly to predict the bass performance. The diffraction due to baffle edges was probably not turned on. Besides, a 15in wide baffle is pretty large to minimize that effect which is normally minimized with an offset placement. You have to remember that the response of the driver is not flat (not pistonic) and in fact, with A7.3 is not anything close to flat as far as full range drivers go. I show the higher frequencies mainly to see that the bass is level matched.
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I see. I made a simple simulation in Boxsim in 10 ltrs vented enclosure tuned to 55 Hz, and it shows some pretty nasty comb filtering due to the baffle. Boxsim however can not simulate wall mounting (or a MLTL, for that matter).
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If ultimate flat response is what you want, an offset driver location will be better. It won't look as good though. I might as well make it rectangular folded rather than square. Simply refold turns to have same length. If one makes it deeper the. Width of channels are narrower and it becomes a rectangle. Put driver at about 1/3rd from end - near top and offset by 3/4in or so should get rid of a lot of baffle edge diffraction. I will probably make foam core square as first case in any event.
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FWIW, I made up a set of small single driver full range speakers as my first DIY audio project. I used the Fostex FE127. The boxes worked more or less as they should have although I wasn't a fan of the ragged treble from this driver (search this forum for Moon Onken). The idea was to support these speakers with a sub woofer below 80Hz, where the full range speakers run out of puff. I built a nice push-push sub (also on this forum).
My experience was this set-up provided great clarity, especially the vocals. this seems to be a real strength of the Full Range approach. To get the best of this set up required better quality amplification than an off-the-shelf HT receiver. This forced me to learn about electronics and ultimately to design and build my own amplifiers. I have since found that I want the convenience of a modern HT receiver. so I now use a Pioneer receiver that I have modified the internal Class AB amplifiers to improve their sound (see my TGM6 thread on the Solid state forum). It's much better but I may eventually move back to out-board DIY amps.
I have also discovered that such a set-up only provides its best with good source material. This means bluray and even then some recordings are better than others (The Master and Commander is my recommended test disc).
At the present time I am not using the Full Range speakers for my home theatre. Ultimately I found that they could not provide the bottom end dynamics that I enjoy in many movies. I also found that the sub could not fill this void. In hindsight, I would guess that what I should have done was use larger full range drivers so as to give enough oomph in the upper bass range. So I am now using multiple driver speakers, large floor standing units. Of course they are not as convenient to have in the room but they work well.
My recommendation is to use the largest boxes you can accommodate and perhaps MLTL. The smallest Full Range single driver speaker I made that would fit the bill is based on the Microtower from Planet10, which is also on this forum (search for Martello 2).
Edit: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/220047-martello-2-mini-tower-single-2-x-4-a.html
My experience was this set-up provided great clarity, especially the vocals. this seems to be a real strength of the Full Range approach. To get the best of this set up required better quality amplification than an off-the-shelf HT receiver. This forced me to learn about electronics and ultimately to design and build my own amplifiers. I have since found that I want the convenience of a modern HT receiver. so I now use a Pioneer receiver that I have modified the internal Class AB amplifiers to improve their sound (see my TGM6 thread on the Solid state forum). It's much better but I may eventually move back to out-board DIY amps.
I have also discovered that such a set-up only provides its best with good source material. This means bluray and even then some recordings are better than others (The Master and Commander is my recommended test disc).
At the present time I am not using the Full Range speakers for my home theatre. Ultimately I found that they could not provide the bottom end dynamics that I enjoy in many movies. I also found that the sub could not fill this void. In hindsight, I would guess that what I should have done was use larger full range drivers so as to give enough oomph in the upper bass range. So I am now using multiple driver speakers, large floor standing units. Of course they are not as convenient to have in the room but they work well.
My recommendation is to use the largest boxes you can accommodate and perhaps MLTL. The smallest Full Range single driver speaker I made that would fit the bill is based on the Microtower from Planet10, which is also on this forum (search for Martello 2).
Edit: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/220047-martello-2-mini-tower-single-2-x-4-a.html
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Sure, I was thinking of using the same speaker I use for center (1 ft³ CB 2-way) for surround, but I find these wall mount speakers much more appealing. But of course, if they don't fit, I need to find another solution. (In fact I always wanted to build dipole surrounds, but apparently no one ever came up with a proper DIY design for that, at least I haven't found one yet. Needless to say that I am not in the position to design one by myself. 😉)
Tusker - perhaps there's something in this drawing set that might work , while drawn a few years back as an appendix to the "microtower" which works quite well, and targeted for the budget priced CHR70, they could be considered a starting point for topologies using any suitable driver.
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/MT-HT-Appendix-191209.pdf
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/MT-HT-Appendix-191209.pdf
Thank you Chris, that looks very interesting! However it's not quite clear if this is supposed to be a bipole or dipole. Unfortunately I couldn't find any builds or measurements, seems I need to build one and see for myself how it works. The CHR-70 is not too expensive and could be used elsewhere, so the 'risk' is only to produce some firewood…
Hi,
I'd just like to thank xrk971 for posting this design. I have a pair of Alpair 7p drivers in Frugel Horns which have been usurped by Frugel Horn XLs in the main listening room so when I saw your design it seemed to make sense to give them a try in our newly created hobby room which is about 10ft square.
They're put together rather crudely using things like an old Ikea unit but the dimensions behind the front baffle as per your description. I'm really rather impressed with the sound produced so will be doing a better job on the cabinets in the near future.
Once again, thanks.
Ian
I'd just like to thank xrk971 for posting this design. I have a pair of Alpair 7p drivers in Frugel Horns which have been usurped by Frugel Horn XLs in the main listening room so when I saw your design it seemed to make sense to give them a try in our newly created hobby room which is about 10ft square.
They're put together rather crudely using things like an old Ikea unit but the dimensions behind the front baffle as per your description. I'm really rather impressed with the sound produced so will be doing a better job on the cabinets in the near future.
Once again, thanks.
Ian
IanLenco,
You are welcome! Glad someone tried it out - do you have any photos of the internals before you buttoned it up? Did you make the long vent version that is supposed to reach 40Hz? You have them in corners so the bass may be even higher.
Thanks for sharing.
X
You are welcome! Glad someone tried it out - do you have any photos of the internals before you buttoned it up? Did you make the long vent version that is supposed to reach 40Hz? You have them in corners so the bass may be even higher.
Thanks for sharing.
X
Hi,
Yes, I have used a long vent. As I said, these were just knocked up to see if they work so internals aren't too pretty but here it is if you must see!
They are definitely worth making a proper job of!
Yes, I have used a long vent. As I said, these were just knocked up to see if they work so internals aren't too pretty but here it is if you must see!
They are definitely worth making a proper job of!
This is a great shot - love it! What is that grey stuffing made of? Did you seal all joints with glue? I might have to throw one together in foam core to check it out - I get the feeling the bass may be quite impressive when wall mounted.
The grey stuff is wool I think. Long-haired a bit like soft felt. Easy to tease out. I bought it from a DIY Speaker site but can't think where, it was left over from an earlier project.
I'm wondering what a pair of Alpair 10p drivers might sound in this cabinet but don't really understand the theory in order to scale it up - any pointers?
Cheers, Ian
P.S. I am now foolishly reading the foam core speaker thread - only 230 pages to go - thanks 😱
I'm wondering what a pair of Alpair 10p drivers might sound in this cabinet but don't really understand the theory in order to scale it up - any pointers?
Cheers, Ian
P.S. I am now foolishly reading the foam core speaker thread - only 230 pages to go - thanks 😱
Oh, forgot, yes, the joins are mostly screwed but all have glue and I even smeared a bit on after it was all set up.
Another Full Range speaker
Another full range speaker design to consider is a Cornu spiral horn. It is a back horn that expands outward perpendicular to the direction that the driver is facing. I think that this speaker design is for a more efficient speaker with a lower Qts.
Retsel
Another full range speaker design to consider is a Cornu spiral horn. It is a back horn that expands outward perpendicular to the direction that the driver is facing. I think that this speaker design is for a more efficient speaker with a lower Qts.
Retsel
Low profile ML-TL? Flat speakers make a lot of sense. More people should try it. Very cool project.
The gut shots are nice. Who cares what it looks like; it's the insides... Wool is a good TL stuffing, but it would be half eaten by moths within a couple weeks where I live. Offhand, normally I'd say they look a little over-stuffed. However, considering the corner location, it's probably about perfect.
I'm almost to the point where if I make any more speakers, they will have to be wall mounted out of lack of space.
The gut shots are nice. Who cares what it looks like; it's the insides... Wool is a good TL stuffing, but it would be half eaten by moths within a couple weeks where I live. Offhand, normally I'd say they look a little over-stuffed. However, considering the corner location, it's probably about perfect.
I'm almost to the point where if I make any more speakers, they will have to be wall mounted out of lack of space.