My next project will be to build a small speaker with variable BSC. I plan to do this with a normal 5-6" driver for the low frequencies, and a cross over at the baffle step frequency going over to a small full range driver with a variable Lpad. Can anyone suggest a good small full range for this. Obviously any shortcomings in the lower frequencies of the FR driver are irrelevant, and hf are all important.
I apologise if this ought to be in the full range site. It is a bit of a mixture.
I apologise if this ought to be in the full range site. It is a bit of a mixture.
We have used the FF85wk to very good effect for this kind of application. I just put one of our on-going efforts into my system yesterday. Here are some of our earlier efforts: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/144099-thread-tysen-variations-fast.html
dave
dave
I don't know if small enough or either what's good for this project. Just an idea from another today's thread.
Dayton Audio RS100-4 4'' Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm www.amazon.co.uk
Dayton Audio RS100-4 4'' Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm www.amazon.co.uk
If the fullrange driver has tame enough an impedance profile, such as loaded in a mid-TL with damping material, I suppose an L-pad might work, but you'd better go line-level with a circuit such as this. I've built this before and it worked quite well. Here was its electrical response:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm having €13.33 3fe22 with normal 15" midbass as temporary toy occasionally . Digitally crossed at ~333 Hz.
More about 3fe22 and vifa TC9FD18 are in http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...parison-3in-4in-class-full-range-drivers.html and http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
More about 3fe22 and vifa TC9FD18 are in http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...parison-3in-4in-class-full-range-drivers.html and http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
I use this one on open baffle from about 700Hz up. Works well for me.
Tymphany TC9FD18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer
Tymphany TC9FD18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer
+1 on the Vifa TC9FD - probably the best sounding driver under $60. You would have to spend about $62 for the Scan Speak 10F/8114 to get more performance, or $100 for the 10F/8424 to beat it. Other good choices include the Faital Pro 3FE22 16ohm, Vifa TG9FD10-8 (fiberglass version of TC9GD), Visaton B80, and Dayton RS100P-4. The 10F/8424 has a lower cost higher Qts sibling called the 10F/8414 that is also quite nice at about $62.
Look at the construction details and build quality. No plastic frame here, Nd magnet, extensive venting, etc:
Troels Graveson has some measurements here:
5F8422T01-10F8414G10
Here is his frequency and polar data:
More info on drivers and comparisons of their sound here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270614-subjective-blind-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268626-vifa-tc9fd18-08-best-bang-buck.html
and here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270094-objective-comparison-3in-4in-class-full-range-drivers.html
If I had to pick just one ultimate 3in to 4in full range driver, it would be the SS 10F/8424. If I had $350, I would get the Heil ESS AMT and cross it over at 600Hz. That tweeter is almost a fullrange driver and its sound cannot be beat IMO.
Here are some of the drivers I have tested, listened to, and used in a FAST where the full range acts as the tweeter from about 225Hz to 20kHz. These were all provided through the generosity of other members on this forum (except the TC9FD):
From bottom left to right: Dayton RS100P-4, Dayton PS95-8, Peerless 830986, AHE7,
second row from front from left: Scan Speak 10F/8424, Vifa TG9FD10-8, Vifa TC9FD18-8, Faital Pro 3FE22 r16
third row from front: Tang Band W4-1320SB, Fostex FF105WK, Radio Shack (Foster FE103) 40-1197, 69 cent wonders
fourth row from front: PRV 5MR450NDY-8, NSB (no stinkin' badges)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Look at the construction details and build quality. No plastic frame here, Nd magnet, extensive venting, etc:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Troels Graveson has some measurements here:
5F8422T01-10F8414G10
Here is his frequency and polar data:
More info on drivers and comparisons of their sound here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270614-subjective-blind-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268626-vifa-tc9fd18-08-best-bang-buck.html
and here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270094-objective-comparison-3in-4in-class-full-range-drivers.html
If I had to pick just one ultimate 3in to 4in full range driver, it would be the SS 10F/8424. If I had $350, I would get the Heil ESS AMT and cross it over at 600Hz. That tweeter is almost a fullrange driver and its sound cannot be beat IMO.
Here are some of the drivers I have tested, listened to, and used in a FAST where the full range acts as the tweeter from about 225Hz to 20kHz. These were all provided through the generosity of other members on this forum (except the TC9FD):
From bottom left to right: Dayton RS100P-4, Dayton PS95-8, Peerless 830986, AHE7,
second row from front from left: Scan Speak 10F/8424, Vifa TG9FD10-8, Vifa TC9FD18-8, Faital Pro 3FE22 r16
third row from front: Tang Band W4-1320SB, Fostex FF105WK, Radio Shack (Foster FE103) 40-1197, 69 cent wonders
fourth row from front: PRV 5MR450NDY-8, NSB (no stinkin' badges)
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+1 on the Vifa TC9FD - probably the best sounding driver under $60.
It is not that good.
dave
It is not that good.
dave
That is your opinion. The results of the poll in this thread say otherwise.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270614-subjective-blind-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
To be clear, there are better sounding drivers, but you have to spend quite a bit more to get one. The SS 10F is such a driver. I have listened to and tested a lot of 3in to 4in full range drivers from the above photo.
The results of the poll in this thread say otherwise.
No conclusion can be made from that …
there are better sounding drivers, but you have to spend quite a bit more to get one.
And some of them are under $60 each.
The $170/pr we 1st compared the ViFA to, just destroyed them.
dave
No conclusion can be made from that …
Hmm, I'd think all sorts of conclusions can be made from it..
The results of the poll do show preference (under the testing protocol) for the Vifa with a moderate sample size FROM THE DRIVERS TESTED.
-of course there are many drivers NOT IN THE GROUP.
Still, its a subjective grouping and any given listener might not agree with the majority opinion.
BTW, objectively as a tweeter substitute, the smaller Vifa that I posted a link to IS better (overall).
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Hmm, I'd think all sorts of conclusions can be made from it..
The results of the poll do show preference (under the testing protocol) for the Vifa with a moderate sample size FROM THE DRIVERS TESTED.
But the testing procedure has such a chain of things that are convolved with the driver, no valid conclusions can be made.
Too much information lost and so much variability…
dave
Midrange (original poster); it would be great if you could tell us your crossover point (active/passive, LR2, LR4?) and also enclosure type.
I am thinking of a similar project:
For 60 to 400hz, I am thinking of GPA/Altec 416 in a U-frame/cardioid (already have the 416s).
Active DSP LR4 crossover.
And for 400hz up I am thinking a ~3" full ranger.
Best options seem to be the Vifas, SS 10Fs and Visaton B80.
If we believe the graphs, B80 seems to have the best response (it also has the advantage? of a phase plug). Does anyone have experience with this driver? http://www.visaton.com/bilder/frequenz/gross/b80_fs.gif
And also, people who have experience with both types of designs, which is the better compromise in terms of listening experience:
1. a small full ranger supported by a mid-woofer under 400hz (with the unavoidable not so great treble performance)
2. any other multiway with a dedicated tweeter (with the unavoidable additional Co and lobing/phase issues)
* Scott; why do you think the treble performance of the smaller Vifa would be superior? Is it just because of the cone diameter?
I am thinking of a similar project:
For 60 to 400hz, I am thinking of GPA/Altec 416 in a U-frame/cardioid (already have the 416s).
Active DSP LR4 crossover.
And for 400hz up I am thinking a ~3" full ranger.
Best options seem to be the Vifas, SS 10Fs and Visaton B80.
If we believe the graphs, B80 seems to have the best response (it also has the advantage? of a phase plug). Does anyone have experience with this driver? http://www.visaton.com/bilder/frequenz/gross/b80_fs.gif
And also, people who have experience with both types of designs, which is the better compromise in terms of listening experience:
1. a small full ranger supported by a mid-woofer under 400hz (with the unavoidable not so great treble performance)
2. any other multiway with a dedicated tweeter (with the unavoidable additional Co and lobing/phase issues)
* Scott; why do you think the treble performance of the smaller Vifa would be superior? Is it just because of the cone diameter?
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http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180645&d=1364815790
http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180646&d=1364815814
http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180648&d=1364815855
http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180647&d=1364815839
B80 article in K+T
http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180646&d=1364815814
http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180648&d=1364815855
http://forum.vegalab.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=180647&d=1364815839
B80 article in K+T
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