In reference / confirmation to a question that was asked elsewhere, both CHR90 and CHP90 go straight into FHXL, with the standard points about adjusting damping to suit individual requirements.
During the winter holydays I will (hopefully) finish both the FHXL and the Silbury (and start the Blanda-Gronsaker).
I have a pair of 10.3 and a pair of 11MS gen2. Which one would work best in the FHXL and which one in the Silbury?
Thanks!
Roberto
I have a pair of 10.3 and a pair of 11MS gen2. Which one would work best in the FHXL and which one in the Silbury?
Thanks!
Roberto
I'm finalising things here with designs I just need some more info on the bluebuck please. Can I use a 42 ID duct with adjusted length as I have a couple? Does the speaker have to be so low? is the low bass output equivalent to the fhxl? Cheers Scott.Given the modest area & low average SPLs, I suspect FHXL should do; within the context of compact horns, I've yet to hear anybody complain about its LF performance.
Since you mention CHP90, of the current boxes I've done for it & are up on the MA site, Bluebuck gets lowest, followed by the DCR, Pensil CHP90 and Psamathe RTL. They all have different alignments though (I aim to please) so subjective impressions will vary between the boxes (no comment 😉 ). As a sneak preview of a few boxes I've been doing (probably not much use for you given their size & the room dimensions, but a bit of fun. Technically I could take this lower, but the object for these is a low-forced / closer to 'pure' MLTL):
I have to admit, when I read this, I said to myself, "Who is this guy who's telling me what I can and can't do?" Then I did nothing and continued to be disappointed in them. I pushed completing them to a back burner and just came back to them a few weeks ago. Not only was properly clamping them for gluing a lot more difficult than I expected, now that they are glued and properly sealed, I am blown away! I haven't done any measurements yet, and they're just crammed into one end of my shop, but holy cow you were right -- nowhere close to final results. Now I'm going to have to make time to router the points flush, clean them up, and paint them nice and pretty. Then I have to figure out a place to put them that the wife will tolerate. We haven't had floor standers for years.
Luthierguy,
Glad to know that you are enjoying the speakers, and good luck with the final finishing of the cabinets.
Glad to know that you are enjoying the speakers, and good luck with the final finishing of the cabinets.
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Glad to hear that you are enjoying them now! 😎 Sometimes, the little details make an outsized impact.
I found gluing my FHXL cabinets to be far more difficult than I imagined. Despite making ALL of my cuts for the width of the speaker without touching the fence on my table saw (and verifying all of my cuts afterward), I STILL had struggles with some boards poking up higher than others. I felt like I needed 9,000 or so clamps to get these suckers glued up.
I found gluing my FHXL cabinets to be far more difficult than I imagined. Despite making ALL of my cuts for the width of the speaker without touching the fence on my table saw (and verifying all of my cuts afterward), I STILL had struggles with some boards poking up higher than others. I felt like I needed 9,000 or so clamps to get these suckers glued up.
You bet! It didn't help that mine sat around for a year, so the plywood had to be encouraged back into flatness. For me, the biggest challend was making sure I had clamping pressure in the center of the side panel to make sure I wasn't bowing it up in the middle. I glued it in multiple stages with the bottom going on last, so I could see up inside, but I didn't have a clamp that could reach. I ended up using a caul and reversing some clamps to be pushers against the ceiling. If I do another set, I think I'll use my book press if it opens wide enough, although honestly, I don't know if I can lift it to the bench any more.
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I found using sets of straight and true 2x4 on edge (to resist bending) clamped across the middle of the cabinet worked well to exert some pressure on places that my clamps couldn't reach on their own. I also tend to do the same along the edges to try to distribute clamping force along the glue seams. There's nothing like adding another clamp between two clamps that you've already placed and seeing more glue squish out...
When I tackled my Calpamos project, I didn't have nearly enough clamps, so I ended up driving about 350 screws in conjunction with glue to make up for the difference.
When I tackled my Calpamos project, I didn't have nearly enough clamps, so I ended up driving about 350 screws in conjunction with glue to make up for the difference.
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Yeah, another thing I'd do if I make another is use pocket screws when I'm putting on the first side. Although if I'm going to do a roundover or bevel, I bet I'll need to pull them back out after the glue dries, at least on the front.
All right. Now I've got some time with them, I need some advice. On the one hand they sound great. I'm really loving them on things like the Fairfield Four; Patricia Barber, Cafe Blue; or Charlie Haden Missouri Sky. -- Nice full-bodied low end. But pretty bright on the high end, especially on things like Kind of Blue -- The tape hiss and room ambiance is just too present, and if someone gets on a snare with some brushes, I'm racing for the volume knob. I'm a total REW novice, but it consistently slows a clear bump 7.5k-10k. (UMIK-1)
Is that indicative of something specific I should try? Oh, and so you don't have to dig back, Frugel-horn XL with 11MS drivers.
Is that indicative of something specific I should try? Oh, and so you don't have to dig back, Frugel-horn XL with 11MS drivers.
Luthierguy,
Have you experimented with toeing in/out the speakers?
Your measurements also match the MA datasheet - the Alpair 11MS FR curve shows an elevated response when on axis across a certain part of the frequency range, so you might benefit a little by going more off axis.
Have you experimented with toeing in/out the speakers?
Your measurements also match the MA datasheet - the Alpair 11MS FR curve shows an elevated response when on axis across a certain part of the frequency range, so you might benefit a little by going more off axis.
Attachments
I didn't think to look at the curve for the driver. Mine's messier than that, but otherwise is remarkably similar. My bass rolls off much more sharply than that though. I wouldn't have thought so from listening to them.
I'll experiment with toe in. Right now, they're still rocking my workshop, so nothing is ideal about their placement.
I'll experiment with toe in. Right now, they're still rocking my workshop, so nothing is ideal about their placement.
Better to get them in your listening space - the balance is likely to change depending on the size of the space, distance from the wall etc.
What amps are you using?
What amps are you using?
Down in my shop is a Aiyima A07. If I move them upstairs, I was thinking I'd try them on my old Naim NAP 120.
The Mrs has banned anything coming from the shop into the living space without final finish on it. So that won't be until April or June.
The Mrs has banned anything coming from the shop into the living space without final finish on it. So that won't be until April or June.
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You'll have to wait until you get them into (something close to) their final position before making any actual evaluations. In my listening room, I had a pretty pronounced response hump from ~5k through about 12k (center of peak is about 8k where it was 5-7dB above the rest of the response range). I left them that way for quite a while to allow them to loosen up a little, but the response hump never went away.
Others here might be upset with me (messing with phase angle, now), but I added a small notch filter using good quality components and it made them much more enjoyable to my ear.
Left and Right Notch Filter: 28R || 1.4uF || 0.27mH
Put all three in parallel with one another, and place the whole things in series with driver. Tweak resistor value to taste: more resistance takes the peak down further.
Others here might be upset with me (messing with phase angle, now), but I added a small notch filter using good quality components and it made them much more enjoyable to my ear.
Left and Right Notch Filter: 28R || 1.4uF || 0.27mH
Put all three in parallel with one another, and place the whole things in series with driver. Tweak resistor value to taste: more resistance takes the peak down further.
Dear Dave, many thanks for the detailed response. I got a little distracted with other matters since last November. Then when I did order, there was a lost shipment (😔) but Stefan from KJF Audio more than made up for it by bringing a replacement kit over himself!!
I decided to go with the A10PeN based on your recommendation and budget consideration. I will finally be building the kit this coming week/weekend, most likely.
I am excited to embark on this journey of trial and error and learning and fun. I'll start with the A10P but maybe after my next move (sometime this year) I'll get / make a different kit also using a similar driver, and could try the MOAP 10.2 then.
Thanks again, and I might come back with newbie questions for the forum once I start building. 🙂
Panda 🐼
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I quote myself to see if anyone can give an anwer to this question. I'll be ready in a few weeks with the Silbury and shortly with the FHXL.
Thanks,
Roberto
