Josh Stippich did it to an fe208EZ. Ruined it. Shure it worked a bit. But in the end you wind up where every fullrange attempt at electromotion ends up, making way too much heat for any kind of practicality trying to get any high freqs. The S-voxs make great mids and bass, no magic in the highs, even when you crank em up to full voltage, and the you only have 10 minutes to listen, or grab a fire extinguisher. Feild coiled woofers work, as do midranges, but to do highs and bass in one driver may not be possible at all except by dual coils/diaghrams or water cooling. The 166esr will be the best fullranger that's relatively available for some time bar none IMHO. An AER? fine, whatever. My cryo'd fe208Z (notE) are better than any field coil I have heard. But cryo has it's own problems.
Now Josh also DIY'd a feild coil tweeter, worked. He may even get a great midbass someday. I doubt he ever gets a full ranger.
I asked the Fostex engineer about field coils a couple of years ago, no interest as a product. He did say he had some FC woofers at home, but was bothered by the whole baggage of complexity associated with them.
COmpression field coils work, in much narower bandwidth (think 3-5way). But you have to be a front horny to put up with even more domestic disenchantment.
TC
Driver and cabinet dampening
I have started to build the factory recommended back loaded horns (my first horn) and I would appreciate the collective wisdom of the forum on a few questions that I have:
1. I have seen it recommended that the magnet be wrapped in felt. Is this necessary and if so how thick and what is the recommend method to attach the felt to the driver. I am thinking 1/8" - 1/4" thick, no glue and using electrical tape to secure the felt to the driver.
2. I am thinking of dampening the driver basket using rope caulk (outside only). The driver basket while stamped appears to be substantial; I am not sure that this is necessary.
3. The factory plan calls for the bottom and back of the horn throat to be lined. I have some ½" carpet pad that I could use or I could line it with about ½" of felt. Other ideas that I have read are combed silicone caulk, carpet, and cork.
4. I have also read (not sure where) that lining the first 30-40% of the horn with cork will help to reduce midrange propagation out of the horn mouth without taking the life out of the horn. Anybody tried this?
5. Any suggestions for hook-up wire?
Thanks for your collective help.
Bill
I have started to build the factory recommended back loaded horns (my first horn) and I would appreciate the collective wisdom of the forum on a few questions that I have:
1. I have seen it recommended that the magnet be wrapped in felt. Is this necessary and if so how thick and what is the recommend method to attach the felt to the driver. I am thinking 1/8" - 1/4" thick, no glue and using electrical tape to secure the felt to the driver.
2. I am thinking of dampening the driver basket using rope caulk (outside only). The driver basket while stamped appears to be substantial; I am not sure that this is necessary.
3. The factory plan calls for the bottom and back of the horn throat to be lined. I have some ½" carpet pad that I could use or I could line it with about ½" of felt. Other ideas that I have read are combed silicone caulk, carpet, and cork.
4. I have also read (not sure where) that lining the first 30-40% of the horn with cork will help to reduce midrange propagation out of the horn mouth without taking the life out of the horn. Anybody tried this?
5. Any suggestions for hook-up wire?
Thanks for your collective help.
Bill
Re: Driver and cabinet dampening
Use real wool felt as thick as you can get away with. You might be able to use a fat elestic band to hold it in place.
Ductseal does a better job and won't harden up as rope caulk tends too. I'd also use it to shape the space between the basket and the magnet before felting.
cheap -- cryoed Cat 5 strands (a pr), less cheap ... cryoed solid core silver (with teflon or enamel insulation (or none if you can guarantee they won't short.
dave
Badwater said:
Use real wool felt as thick as you can get away with. You might be able to use a fat elestic band to hold it in place.
Ductseal does a better job and won't harden up as rope caulk tends too. I'd also use it to shape the space between the basket and the magnet before felting.
cheap -- cryoed Cat 5 strands (a pr), less cheap ... cryoed solid core silver (with teflon or enamel insulation (or none if you can guarantee they won't short.
dave
FE166ES-R impressions after 1 week...
Nice!
Using the Fostex cabinets. A little peak at 160 Hz (well, OK, a BIG peak) acc. to my RS meter using the Stereophile Test CD 3 warble tones. And some suckout at around 315Hz. But all in all, very smooth up top and weighty enough down below.
I lined the compression chamber back wall with 1/8" trunk liner felt, and pretty much covered (encapsulated) the magnets with same.
Placement in my 11' x 13' room is deep in the corners along the short wall aimed directly at the listening position. Walls are gypsum and floor is carpet and pad over concrete. Ceiling is vaulted 8' to 11' (the wall behind the listener).
I'm using a diy subwoofer: 2.5 sq. ft. 12" dvc powered with a PE 200wpc plate amp crossed over at around 60Hz.
Amps are Cary 300B monoblocks. Main source is CD: Benchmark/Theta.
I'd certainly like to hear other users' impressions, or any comments on my notes.
Thanks youse!
Nice!
Using the Fostex cabinets. A little peak at 160 Hz (well, OK, a BIG peak) acc. to my RS meter using the Stereophile Test CD 3 warble tones. And some suckout at around 315Hz. But all in all, very smooth up top and weighty enough down below.
I lined the compression chamber back wall with 1/8" trunk liner felt, and pretty much covered (encapsulated) the magnets with same.
Placement in my 11' x 13' room is deep in the corners along the short wall aimed directly at the listening position. Walls are gypsum and floor is carpet and pad over concrete. Ceiling is vaulted 8' to 11' (the wall behind the listener).
I'm using a diy subwoofer: 2.5 sq. ft. 12" dvc powered with a PE 200wpc plate amp crossed over at around 60Hz.
Amps are Cary 300B monoblocks. Main source is CD: Benchmark/Theta.
I'd certainly like to hear other users' impressions, or any comments on my notes.
Thanks youse!
More enclosure questions...
I'm glad I jumped on these when I had the chance. Listening to them without a baffle, I can already tell that they're going to sound wonderful. I've decided to stick with the factory recommended horn. Sooo... since this is my first fullranger, and my first horn, I have some additional questions about these enclosures:
1. I have some leftover parts express Sonic Barrier damping material... 260-535, 260-525, and 260-520. Would this be an appropriate material for the compression chamber lining?
2. The horn mouth construction results in a bunch of steps which I think are a bit ugly. I'd like to smooth over these steps and apply a thin sheet of say, 1/8" birch ply to give a nice clean curve to it. Would this affect the sound quality at all?
3. How about putting 45-degree filler pieces in some of the corners along the horn path, just to round it out a little?
4. Countersinking the driver mount, so the edges of the frame are flush with the front baffle?
5. Finally, I was thinking of building a gently curved front baffle - essentially a shaped piece of solid 3/4" plywood sandwiched onto the existing front baffle, with a nice veneered face. Due to the veneer, I'd curve them only in the horizontal direction, and leave them vertically flat. The curve would be the largest radius I can fit between the driver edges and the enclosure sides. I would also consider rounding some of the other front baffle edges with the usual 3/4" routered radius.
Thanks in advance for your replies... can't wait to hear these in a proper enclosure!
I'm glad I jumped on these when I had the chance. Listening to them without a baffle, I can already tell that they're going to sound wonderful. I've decided to stick with the factory recommended horn. Sooo... since this is my first fullranger, and my first horn, I have some additional questions about these enclosures:
1. I have some leftover parts express Sonic Barrier damping material... 260-535, 260-525, and 260-520. Would this be an appropriate material for the compression chamber lining?
2. The horn mouth construction results in a bunch of steps which I think are a bit ugly. I'd like to smooth over these steps and apply a thin sheet of say, 1/8" birch ply to give a nice clean curve to it. Would this affect the sound quality at all?
3. How about putting 45-degree filler pieces in some of the corners along the horn path, just to round it out a little?
4. Countersinking the driver mount, so the edges of the frame are flush with the front baffle?
5. Finally, I was thinking of building a gently curved front baffle - essentially a shaped piece of solid 3/4" plywood sandwiched onto the existing front baffle, with a nice veneered face. Due to the veneer, I'd curve them only in the horizontal direction, and leave them vertically flat. The curve would be the largest radius I can fit between the driver edges and the enclosure sides. I would also consider rounding some of the other front baffle edges with the usual 3/4" routered radius.
Thanks in advance for your replies... can't wait to hear these in a proper enclosure!
Re: Re: Driver and cabinet dampening
Much thanks for your help.
I picked up a yard of felt today at the local fabric store. I am not sure if its real wool or not. Its about 1/16 -1/8" thick so will layer it to desired thickness
Picked up two blocks at the hardware store for $4US.
Can you suggest a source for the cryoed wire?
BTW, how do you highlight the quotes?
Bill
Much thanks for your help.
planet10 said:
I picked up a yard of felt today at the local fabric store. I am not sure if its real wool or not. Its about 1/16 -1/8" thick so will layer it to desired thickness
Picked up two blocks at the hardware store for $4US.
Can you suggest a source for the cryoed wire?
BTW, how do you highlight the quotes?
Bill
Re: Re: More enclosure questions...
Hrm. I figured it was something like that. Well, at least the construction will be easy.
Any thoughts on the curved baffle? I'm thinking that I'll have to adjust the volume of the compression chanber just slightly to compensate for the extra front panel thickness.
planet10 said:
Hrm. I figured it was something like that. Well, at least the construction will be easy.
Any thoughts on the curved baffle? I'm thinking that I'll have to adjust the volume of the compression chanber just slightly to compensate for the extra front panel thickness.
Re: Re: Re: Driver and cabinet dampening
Likely polyester if you got it from a craft store.. put a lighter too a piece and you'll know pretty quick. The poly stuff is not nearly as good as wool (ie marginal at best)
Take 5. maybe soon from PEARL. maybe Jena Labs (they have a cryo plant from PEARL)
leave the quoted stuff in between {open-square-bracket }QUOTE{close-square-bracket } and {open-square-bracket }/QUOTE{close-square-bracket }
dave
Badwater said:
Likely polyester if you got it from a craft store.. put a lighter too a piece and you'll know pretty quick. The poly stuff is not nearly as good as wool (ie marginal at best)
Take 5. maybe soon from PEARL. maybe Jena Labs (they have a cryo plant from PEARL)
leave the quoted stuff in between {open-square-bracket }QUOTE{close-square-bracket } and {open-square-bracket }/QUOTE{close-square-bracket }
dave
Rounding edges off
Guy's - "when" I get around to building the BLH I was thinking of running a router over the leading (square) edges of all those bottom steps/panels and the same on the front baffle steps? with a 1/2" round over bit.
This wouldn't have any major effect on the final sound, would it???
Guy's - "when" I get around to building the BLH I was thinking of running a router over the leading (square) edges of all those bottom steps/panels and the same on the front baffle steps? with a 1/2" round over bit.
This wouldn't have any major effect on the final sound, would it???
Re: Rounding edges off
I don't think a round over on the outside edges would be a problem, but the edges on the inside are supposed to be that way -- you would probably degrade performance. I know this design does a lot of things that on 1st pass don't seem to make sense, but -- according to those who have built it -- it works, and works well.
I am working on getting a set of the smaller FE103 ones built for my vintage alnico FE103s (and variants -- if i can get my 16 ohm Coral's surrounds fixed (and Cal doesn't take them all from me), these could be the best of the lot.
dave
greenie512 said:
I don't think a round over on the outside edges would be a problem, but the edges on the inside are supposed to be that way -- you would probably degrade performance. I know this design does a lot of things that on 1st pass don't seem to make sense, but -- according to those who have built it -- it works, and works well.
I am working on getting a set of the smaller FE103 ones built for my vintage alnico FE103s (and variants -- if i can get my 16 ohm Coral's surrounds fixed (and Cal doesn't take them all from me), these could be the best of the lot.
dave
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